TOPIC: Best in Slot Items

David Zych wrote:

Endgame wrote: You've now pointed out another potential qualifier for Best in Slot - cost vs effect. Perhaps the relic redoubt items are actually BiS over the legendary? For example, Blessed Redoubt Plate is 15% less ac, but it's 66% less expensive.

I feel like what you're getting at here would be some other designation such as "best value" or "best bang for buck", though of course by that specific metric rare Plate Armor is only 38% less ac but ~100% less expensive (i.e. somebody will probably give you one free if you ask nicely).

IMO Best In Slot has a specific meaning: which token would you equip if you had access to all of them?

That's fair, and it's why all of my builds to this point have included the Rod of 7 Parts, Skull of Cavadar, and a whole heaping stack of legendaries.

Continuing the list of Max Damage builds, here is one for Poly + FA Spell Druid:
To completely maximize damage, I've included spell damage in the build and am using ring of quick blessing and charm of spell storing. In other words, I've dropped maximum poly melee damage by about 6 points to allow 3 rounds of melee attack + free action casting freezing orb, and 1 round of melee attack + free action cast of spell surged call lightning. Note - this means that the hybrid poly + spell druid deals more damage over a whole adventure as long as there are fewer than 30 rounds of combat.

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/465c64f8-0a9e-4075-ada1-b3769e74685a

David Harris wrote:

Jamie Campbell wrote: Endgame....great point.

@Jeff, I wonder if we had a poll of what is considered most important on build design...
1. AC
2. Saves
3. Damage
4. Healing
5. Versatility

etc....it would be interesting to see a poll of this nature as we start thinking about token design. I think it would create some empathy for others...

particularly, if we classify to build type (rare, some UR, full UR, BIS)

Yes, for example I would value To Hit (either melee or ranged) very highly and that didn't make your list!

valid and frankly it is how I do my build...I build for To Hit to miss only on 1...so I left it out because I prefer constant hits to big hits.

A little perspective from someone that has taken 10 builds from Hardcore to Struggling on Nightmare to Thriving on Nightmare.

Hardcore to Struggling on Nightmare - The first hurdle was getting the damage high enough to be able to defeat the boss fight on Nightmare. We tried Nightmare and were fine, until the end where we would still be alive but running out of time cause the damage output was not high enough. So for a time I focus the upgrades that would increase damage output.

Struggling to Thriving - Then it became apparent that more consistent results would come from hitting more often than not. So I focus on increasing To Hit. This was much harder than increasing damage output. But once the To Hit numbers got to a certain level, we began defeating the boss more consistently. At that point, failing saves often felt like the cause of any struggles, so not falling saves began to feel important. So much I've done lately has focused on that.

My experience is that you definitely feel the stages of what is important to the overall party make up as you increase in ability to succeed more on higher levels. Damage and Saves seem easier to add, than To Hit. Additionally, HP has steadily increased and with a quality Cleric build survivability has rarely felt like the challenge on most runs. Similarly, AC has not felt critical, the Paladin has it and sucks up a lot of hits guarding 2. Everyone else the Cleric can usually maintain.

Back - +2 cloak of resistance
Bead - Clerics Piety
Charm (give 3) - Enlightenment (needs a reprint fix, 4 will is high, 8 wisdom is broken)
Charm (give 3) - Draco-lich claw charm
Charm (give 3) - Onyx charm
Ear - Ice Craig Heros Earcuff
Eyes - lenses of the owl? the rare are all pretty good, the transmuted are all pretty good, I'm sort of excluding UR, and it depends on the character, there are no "good for everyone" eye's .... that's spec-tacular (hehe).
Feet - boots of the marauder
Figurine - Dog, Scarab (depending if you can use dog)
Finger - Ring of Heroism
Hands - Blessed Tempest Gloves, Ogre Power Gauntlets, midgard (for 5th level monks, probably everyone with greaves).
Head - Defender's Helm (if you can), Crown of Charisma (if you want to use dog also or do not benefit from Focus), Crown of Focus
Ioun Stone (give 3) - Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone - Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid
Ioun Stone - Ioun Stone Mystic Orb
Legs - Blessed Pants of the Hare, Pants of the Lynx(if you need reflex saves), Pantaloons of the Underdark(if you need free movement)
Mainhand (weapon) - Focus <weapon>, +1 Bliss Hammer(if melee and class unknown), +1 shuriken, or Mighty Sling (assuming you can't use shuriken, or don't have 20 of them)
Neck -Class rare neck ... just, so good. can we get reprints over time please?
Offhand - Defender shield, or a big shield, or +1 bliss hammer, or +1 shuriken (monks, gotta love em)
Runestone - Eldritch Runestone
Shins - relevant (fire or cold probably)
Shirt - Dandy Shirt (that's a thing?), or Shirt of the Panther (that's a thing?)
Torso (armor or robe) [divide into classes if possible] - Chainmail of the Vale, Defender Platemail(cause set),
Robe of the Sage (cause wizards and monks) {I notice no 3 or 4 * options here}
Waist -Belt of Ogre Mage Power, Belt of Blessed Constitution (if hitting is less important),
Belt of the Fey (if you need it)
Wrist -Bracelets of the Zephyr, Bracelets of Frail Agility(if it rounds nicely), Bracers of Archery (if ranged), Bracers of X (Damage in melee), then +1 Ac with another beneficial effect .. they're mostly good frankly.

Someone might notice ... these are not BIS for those with necessarily "lots of money" with one potentially controversial option. These could all be made, or gotten, without spending money on "purchasing" tokens or getting lucky with UR's. Trading, and conversions, yes, "buying" not technically. I think there might be some "vol" tokens in here also, I'm not 100% though I generally tried to leave those out, especially the "str charm" or the "champion choice" despite having a rare option and technically being acquirable for no money. I hope this is helpful.

Jeff Martin wrote: I'd like your thoughts on what generally is considered the "Best in Slot" (BiS) item for each equippable slot. Please Copy/Paste the list below and then type in your thoughts for what item(s) you feel is the best for most classes. Feel free to divide your answers into areas like Fighters/Spellcasters or however it makes sense for that slot. Thanks so much for your help!

For me: All items ordered from best (slot 1) to worst (slot N) where more than 1 item is listed.

Best in Slot Magic Item(s)
Please list no Treasure Enhancers.

Back -

Slot 1: Legendary - Pharacus' Greater Cloak of Destiny

I also always use Charm of Brooching to gain a 2nd back slot:
Slot2:
Relic - Greater Cloak of Destiny
or
UR - Butterfly Cloak

(Butterfly Cloak will be equipped when my saves are already at a point where I don't think I'll fail them, which is likely with Druid, Monk, and Paladin).

Bead -

Slot 1: Relic - Bead of the Lucky Traveler

Slots 2 and 3:
UR - Bead of Focus (casters only)
UR - Bead Guided Strike (Fighters and Rogues only)
Rare -Any of the +4 to saves beads

Charm (give 3) -

Slot 1: UR - Charm of Brooching
Slot 2: Relic - Charm of Awakened Synergy
Slot 3:
UR - Charm of Quick Strike (for classes that can use it)
UR - Charm of Glory (for Casters)

In addition, I always equip Luna's Greater Charm Bracelets and Arcane Earcuff to get 9 Charm Slots.
For Casters I also equip Orion's Belt.

Things in slots 4-9 or 10 are:
Casters:
UR - Charm of Spell Storing
UR - Charm of Spell Swapping

Non-Casters:
UR - Greater Onyx Charm

All:
UR - Questor's Charm of Luck
Relic - Draco-Lich Claw Charm
UR - Lucky Charm

Ear -

Slot 1: UR - Arcane Earcuff
Slot 2: UR - Earcuff of Orbits

Eyes -

Slot 1:
UR - Lenses of Divine Sight (Druid, Cleric)
Rare - Lenses of Focus (Bard, Wizards)
UR - Goggles of Instant Analysis (Barbarian, Fighters, Monk, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue)

On Bards, Druids, and Wizards I tend to use Cranston's Helpful Hat and also equip:
Slot 2:
UR - Lenses of Agility if I'm struggling to get to 20 DEX so I can wield Thor's +5 Hammer
UR - Psyferre's Spectacles if I have 20 or more DEX already

Feet -

Slot 1: Eldritch Relic - Boots of the Four Winds

Figurine -

Slot 1: Rare - Figurine of Power: Salamander

I tend to have 2 or 3 slots for casters and Monks due to Cranston's helpful Hat and also equip:
Slot 2: UR - Figurine of Power: Reaver
Slot 3: UR - Figurine of Power: Imp

Finger -

Slot 1:
Legendary - Resla's Ring of Supreme Focus (Cleric and Druid)
Legendary - Muk's Greater Ring of Havoc (Everyone but Cleric and Druid)

I always have Charm of Glory for a 3rd Ring slot.

Almost all my builds end up with:
Eldritch Relic - Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Legendary - Relsa's Ring of Supreme Focus (for the classes that can use it)
Legendary - Muk's Greater Ring of Havoc

Paladin wears: Legendary - Rolland's Ring of Protection +6

I may use Ring of Wonder, depending on effect.

Hands -

UR - Gauntlets of Linked Fury (Barbarian, Fighters)
Exalted - Blessed Tempest Gloves (Druid, Wizards)

For everyone else one of:
UR - Gloves of the Brute (Everyone else when my STR is odd)
UR - Death Knight Gloves or Mithral Gloves (Everyone else when my STR is even)

Head -

Relic - Blessed Redoubt Helm (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin)
UR - Cranston's Helpful Hat (Everyone else)

Note: Technically the Legendary Redoubt helm is better but I stick with the Relic Helm and Shield from the Redoubt set so that all 4 classes can use my entire set.

Ioun Stone (give 3) -

Slot 1: UR - Ioun Stone Mystic Orb
Slot 2: UR - Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Slot 3: UR - Ioun Stone Tanzanite Cube

I always equip Earcuff of Orbits so I have 7 Ioun Slots. On casters I equip Belt of Orion so I have 9. Other Ioun's that almost always make the cut:

UR - Ioun Stone Saphire Prism
UR or Completion Token - Any of the +2 damage Iouns for the type I am dealing
UR - Onyx Cube for Melee builds
Rare - Any of the +1 to saves Iouns

Legs -

Eldritch Relic - Kilt of Dungeonbane

Mainhand (weapon) -

Ava's +5 Holy Avenger (Paladin)
Avernon's +5 Deathcleaver (Barbarian, Fighters)
Asher's +5 Viper Strike Fang (Monk)
Drake's +5 Staff of Focus (Wizard)
Drue's +5 Baton of Focus (Cleric, Druid)
Thor's +5 Hammer Returning Hammer of Smiting (Bard, Ranger, Rogue)
Widseth's Legendary Lute (Bard - who also uses Thor's Hammer)

Other "BiS" equipment:
UR - Nightshade's +2 Throwing Dagger for Sneak at range / double Sneak bonus on crit
UR - +2 Staff of Power for free spells
UR - Stu's +3 Handy Stein for the potion drinking ability
UR - +2 Rod of Persuasion for the treasure chest ability

Neck -

Class Legendaries for everyone except Paladin and Bard
UR - Amulet of Guarding (Paladin)
UR - Stu-pendous Pendant (Bard)

Offhand -

Relic - Redoubt Shield (Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin)
UR - +2 Mug of Battle (Monk, Ranger, for the save bonus)
UR - Shield of the Scholar (Bard, Druid)
Rare - Brawler's Mug (Rare) or Brawler' Horn (Rogue)

Note: Technically the Legendary Shield is better but I stick with the Relic Helm and Shield from the Redoubt set so that all 4 classes can use my entire set.

Runestone -

I rarely use these. Any +1 to primary damage type for the entire dungeon.

Shins -

A rare -2 damage shins, selected based on expected dungeon damage types.

I would use Flameguard Greaves if I had no information about the dungeon.

Shirt -

Once it exists: Arcane Relic - The upcoming Arcane Shirt

Today:
UR - Shirt of Focus (Casters)
UR - Shirt of the Oaf (non-Casters)

Torso (armor or robe) [divide into classes if possible] -

Legendary - Aaron's Sunhide Robe (Monk, Wizards)
Legendary - Sill's Anounted Redoubt Mail (Everyone except Monk, Wizards)

Note 1: Technically the Legendary Plate is better for the classes that can use it, but I stick with Sill's so that everyone but Monk and Wizard can use it).

Note 2: If I didn't already own Legendary Sill's, and have the Relic set pieces that go with it, I would never consider acquiring them due to the existence of:

UR - Death Knight Armor (Cleric, Fighters, Paladin)
UR - Death Knight Mail or UR - Lucky Mail (Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Ranger, Rogue)

Waist -

Relic - Orion's Belt (casters)
Rare - Sutr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength (non-Casters)

Note: Over time I expect it is possible that Orion's Belt might become BiS for my non-caster builds as there continue to be more and more Ioun and Charm goodies; someday soon my 2 worst Ions and my worst charm may be better than +7 to STR.

Wrist -

Legendary - Luna's Greater Charm Bracelets

Honorable Mention - Slotless Tokens You Really, Really Should Have for the Classes That Can Use Them

In no particular order:

tokendb.com/token/rod-of-seven-parts/
tokendb.com/token/skull-of-cavadar/
tokendb.com/token/bowl-of-spirit-sight/
tokendb.com/token/gregors-tome-of-focus/
tokendb.com/token/libram-of-looting/
tokendb.com/token/pouch-of-tulz/

Technically any slotless thing would be an improvement, but the above ones are important.

I'm surprised how little respect Master Ale Drinker's Bead is getting. Particularly in 2022, it's the first bead I put in, but I'd have to be metaing hard to run +4 saves over it.

Ian Lee wrote: I'm surprised how little respect Master Ale Drinker's Bead is getting. Particularly in 2022, it's the first bead I put in, but I'd have to be metaing hard to run +4 saves over it.

It is in more builds that I have than clerics piety.
I need to own clerics piety at all to use it.
I have two or three master beads.
I also considered the relic bead hard as it was not technically a UR conversion and lucky traveler really should have been my choice there.

macxdmg wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I'm surprised how little respect Master Ale Drinker's Bead is getting. Particularly in 2022, it's the first bead I put in, but I'd have to be metaing hard to run +4 saves over it.

It is in more builds that I have than clerics piety.
I need to own clerics piety at all to use it.
I have two or three master beads.
I also considered the relic bead hard as it was not technically a UR conversion and lucky traveler really should have been my choice there.

Pretty much all my builds have:
Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Master Ale Drinker's Bead

then either
Bead of Focus
or
Bead of Guided Strike
or
Bead Cleric's Piety
or
Bead of the Dire Bear

then situationally Bead of Whole Vision

Best in slot doesn't have to mean most damage. To be honest some of the best in slot items are not really that fun, for instance Treasure enhancers do nothing to increase the enjoyability of game play. This is my attempt to provide an assessment of best in slot form an enjoyability perspective. I'm mostly a Rogue, and im kinda naughty so I'm sure my perspective is skewed.

Best in Slot Magic Item(s)

Back - Shade Cloak (speaking to the dead rocks, best token ever really), Butterfly Cloak (spontaneously coming back to life?!, kinda like a lich, hell yeah), Cloak of Blending (sneaky, sneaky), Cloak of Elvenkind (sneaky, sneaky), Gnomish Fizzy Lifting Pack (weeeee!)

Bead - Bead of Guided Strike (changing the rules is fun!) Bead of the Lucky Traveler (no-one want to be stuck unable to take a turn)

Charm - Charm of Heroism (We need a charm of anti-heroism for all us bad types), Charm of Brooching (I get to add another token to my set AND be more fashionable at the same time?!, yes please.),
Charm of Glory (bring on the bling!)

Ear - Arcane Earcuff, Earcuff of Orbits (Moar Bling!), Earcuff of the Wind (oh you thought you were sneaky, but I wins!)

Eyes - Lenses of Agility (why can I not sneakily shoot someone from a distance again?)

Feet - Shoes of the Sneak, Boots of Drowkind (moar stabby), boots of elvenkind (waiting a full round is sooooo unfun, and the damage increase isn't worth it, this rule needs to go), Boots of Bounding (weeeee!), Boots of the Marauder (these boots are made for walk'n)

Figurine - Figurine of Power: Cat (hit me baby one more time), Figurine of Power Panther (for when the druid knocks your puck off the table) - other than this figurines are kinda blah.

Finger - Ring of Heroism (level 5 or bust), The evasion rings (cause then you move like they do), Ray's Ring of Remembrance (sit back and laugh while you brute force and watch your party repeatedly take full puzzle damage), Feedback Loop (for when the druid again, knocks your puck off the table), Ring of Dark Health (feed me!), Ring of Wonder (I wonder if it should be here, I don’t have one…)

Hands - Gauntlet of the Midgard Serpent (thematically just fun, and gave a use for poison resist), Gloves of Deflection ( Monks get to deflect missiles back? Like a Jedi?, wha..?), Gloves of Glory (should have had 6 fingers… but more bling is always better)

Head - Cranston's Helpful Hat (because 4 eyes is better than 2), Hood of Shadows (because someone hates rogues and won't let us have nice things without a bazillion tokens to make us competitive, not kidding), Cooks Hat (because, damn you look good in this hat)

Ioun Stone - Ioun Stone Iridescent Sphere (because I'm not going to be the one that dies from toxic gas), iouns are kinda boring, I don’t mind treasure enhancers here.

Legs - Kilt of Dungeonbane (It’s a Kilt, bring back the Kilt!), Pantaloons of the Deeperdark/Underdark (Pantaloons is funny)

Mainhand (weapon) - Nightshade's (because Rogues represent! also the little swordy icon is cool), Weapons with increased Crit ranges, weapons that heal the user, Turkey Legs.

Neck - Legendary Class Items (*reminder: Insert diatribe about how much I hate having to use a treasure enhancer here instead of a fun class token*)

Offhand -Assassin's Crossbow (big crits are fun), +2 Boomstick.. (because Ash), Weapons with increased Crit ranges, Weapons that have a change to backfire, +2 Stunning Lt. Crossbow (because Rogues should be able to stun).

Runestone - No fun tokens, mulch these guys.

Shins - Venomguard Greaves (one can build up a tolerance to iocaine by gradually ingesting trace doses over time)

Shirt - Waiting for the New multy-year transmute on this one, hoping it fun!, Creeper Shirt (When you want to prove the toxic gas didn’t come from you).

Torso (armor or robe) [divide into classes if possible] -Deathknight (It's fun to be bad)

Waist - Orion's Belt (more tokens for my collection), Belt of Thorns, Belt of Retribution (don’t touch me there!), Belt of the Vine (because #%@% plants, how do I make this teal?)

Wrist Arcane Bracelets, Luna's Et al. (more tokens), Bracers of Guided Strike (tell me again why we hate rogues?)

Slotless: Rope (You don't #%^!' know what you're gonna need it for. They just always need it.)
Bottle of Rum (why is it always gone?)
Ash's Death Pouch, (because now I can bribe my way out of anything)
Libram of Looting (because you really want the shirt, but also to not be skinned alive).
Polymetric Decoy (Qwack!)


Ok, I'm done. Remember, more damage, and higher difficult levels of play does not mean more fun, actually its often the opposite, particularly in pickup groups when you just roll through the combats and the other players all know all the puzzles already. It's often more fun to be thematic, and always more fun to be bad.

Please bring us more fun, preferable "evil" tokens, also please make Rogues better. Thank you very much.

Well, I'm a Heal-emphasized Cleric. I have no delusions of Paladin-hood to try and be able to melee as well.

Head: Crown of Expertise (I know Cranston's is the preferred choice for most people. For me, the Head slot offers more than the Eye slot would add, and using CoE allows me to increase the total number of Prayers. I require 2 additional Prayers, and prefer even getting up to 3 extra, so that I can be certain to have one for every combat).
Eyes: Lenses of Divine Sight
Beads (3): Lucky Traveler, Dire Bear, Bead of Focus
Ear (2): Arcane, Orbits
Wrist: Luna's Greater Charm Bracelets
Neck: Druegar's Sacred Necklace
Hands: Gloves of Focus
Shirt: Shirt of Focus
Waist: Arcane Belt (Orion's is good in it's own right, but I find I actually do not find there are enough good Ioun Stones to make the last couple of choices still net better than just the +2 Focus here. This was an easier choice to make when I still was getting Arcane Set Bonus, but with Luna's now, I might end up going back to Orion's.)
Back: Pharacus's Greater Cloak of Destiny
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane
Ring (2): Relsa's Ring of Supreme Focus; Ring of Greater Focus
Shins: Flameguard Greaves
Figurine: Figurine of Power - Reaver (I know a lot of people are pulling for the Save Negation. As a Cleric, my bad Save is Reflex. Using Pixie to negate a failed Reflex Save typically will still involve taking half damage. The All-or-Nothing Saves are on Fort and Will, where I am already strong. Phoenix could be a good contender otherwise, but since getting Druegar's, I can pretty consistantly find my Free Action taken up. So the Reaver gives me a chance to throw out some smidgeon of damage on that final boss without having to adjust my actions or change gameplay and build.)
Feet: Boots of Four Winds. (Honestly, if it were not for the Eldritch Set Bonus, I would stick with Boots of the Maurader. There are not Focus items for a healer in this slot.)
Weapon: Drue's +5 Baton of Focus
Offhand: Lucky Shield
Ranged: Sacred Sling +2
Ranged Offhand: Shield of the Scholar
Ioun Stone (3): Flourite Sphere, Mystic Orb, Elfstone Shard
Charm (3): Awakened Synergy, Spell Storing, Brooching