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TOPIC: 2023 Participation Tokens < New Images added Monday

2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #13

Matthew Hayward wrote: Thoughts:

0. Where are the Uncommon participation tokens?

1. Other HP granting rares have been called "of vitality." I would change Bead of Health to Bead of Vitality to make it align with:

tokendb.com/token/belt-of-vitality/ (+3 hp)
tokendb.com/token/earcuff-of-vitality/ (+2 hp)
tokendb.com/token/folio-of-vitality/ (+5 hp, one use turn in at start)
tokendb.com/token/shirt-of-vitality/ (+3 hp)

I'd consider making it +3 HP as well; Bead seems to be working out to a powerful slot.

There are 2 rare "of health" tokens, a 2021 boots that give +3 to HP, and a 2013 shirt that makes on immune to disease.

2. 2021 Rare Belt of the Sweetwoods gives +2 to DEX and +1 to CON.

2014 UR Viper Strike Belt gave +3 DEX and was part of the viper strike set.

I'd try to find a way to boost Belt of the cat somehow. +2 to DEX and +1 to ranged damage, or +2 to dex and +1 to AC, or +2 to dex and +1 to hit with ranged.

3. Boots of the Buccaneer. Rare save rings and beads are +3 or +4 to a single save. +5 to two saves feels like a Relic level token to me.

I would make this at best +3 to Reflex and Fort, more likely +2 to Reflex and Fort.

4. Charm of Providence.

Generally +1 to saves is better than +1 to AC, and we just had a +2 to saves UR that is part of the lucky set last year.

This could be +1 to saves, or maybe +2 to AC, or +1 to AC and something else small. Or maybe just +1 to DEX.

5. Charm of Sacrifice: This feels like it should be limited to some classes, but it also looks like a volunteer token so...

6. Cloak of Iron Will.

Rare Ring of Iron Will is +4 to Fortitude saves, and the back slot typically is better at granting saves than the ring slot.

I'd make this +4 or maybe even +5 to fortitude saves (+2 Cloak of Resistance is +6 to saves overll)

7. Expert Bracers: These are very, very good for entry level players. It might make it hard to surpass this with rare bracers in the future for anyone but spellcasters.

8. Goggles of Protection.

Compare their rare +1 to AC with UR level:

Goggles of the deadshoot: +3 to hit with ranged and set bonus
Lenses of Agility: +3 DEX and Rogue sneak attack w/bows and crossbows
Lenses of the Fae: +3 DEX and no 50% miss chance vs. incoroporeal

I think these could easily be +2 DEX. If not at least +1 DEX or +2 AC.

9. Ioun Stone Ruby Spindle.

Melee just got a rare completion Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid in 2020 that is +2 to melee damage.

It feels like this should be +2 - especially if the Missile only clause stays on it.

10. Ioun Stone Ruby Orb.

Melee got an uncommon completion Ioun Stone Jasper Prism in 2022 that is +1 to melee damage.

It feels like this should be a +2 to spell damage Ioun to match Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid's melee, and the proposed change above to Ioun Stone Ruby Spindle to +2 to missile.

11. Shirt of Flame Resistence.

There are rare -3 from fire Ioun, Ring, and Bead. There is an uncommon -2 from fire bracers and gloves,

It feels like this could be -3.

There is also a -1 from fire damage shirt from 2020 though.


Read first post, no more Uncommons.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #14

Matthew Hayward wrote: 0. Where are the Uncommon participation tokens?


Jeff’s post at the top of this thread covers the question about Uncommon Participation Tokens.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #15

Rob F wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Thoughts:

0. Where are the Uncommon participation tokens?.


Read first post, no more Uncommons.


Got it - thanks!
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #16

Jeff, I'm SO glad you're making this change, it's how I've always felt it should be. I agree that there are people playing Nightmare or being pressured to play it solely to get the additional participation token, and this will remove that issue. I really like that Hardcore through Epic is now going to be selected on what difficultly level gives someone the most satisfaction and not for the physical rewards.

Regarding the tokens:

Boots of the Buccaneer seems way too powerful. +4 to a single save might be more appropriate, the same level as Save Rings.

Charm of Biting seems a bit weak for a UR, but on the other hand +2 Piercing to Melee and Ranged seems too much. Maybe it is OK after all.

Charm of Sacrifice does seem a bit weak. Since it takes a Charm slot and is just once per game, I think sacrificing 10 HP to give someone else 10 HP would be fine. Sacrificing 5 HP to give someone else 10 HP might also be fine. My only hesitation is if this might be a way to power up the Mage Powers, the rest of the party could transfer 80-90 HP to the Wizard potentially.

Cloak of Iron Will seems weak compared to the +2 Cloak of Resistance. Maybe bump up to +4?

Goggles of Protection seems a bit weak, maybe +2 AC would be better? Although maybe it's OK, it's the same as the +1 Ring of Protection.

Ring of the Shadows: The power is fine, but given the name it seems like adding +1 Darkrift Damage would be a good fit.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #17

Earcuff of the Garden is missing dots at the top.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #18

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If the two purples are vol tokens for next year they feel way more corner case then say a focus item. If they are patron, they feel about right in terms of quirkiness.

Love the dropping the uncommon competition, that just seems like a win all around.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #19

Great change to the program Jeff!!!
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #20

While I always thought of NM as higher risk, higher reward, I get now how close the participation tokens are to treasure stamps.

That said, I think its ok to have an occasional "chase" participation token, something slotless or otherwise desired by veterans.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #21

Boots of the buccaneer seems greater than boots of the marauder. They should probably be equal in power since o e is transmutes and one is participation?

1ac 1reflex, 1 to hit (ranged), and easier equipping of thors (seems very unlikely though minor consideration), and free action (generally 1 turn).

I could see 3/3 for reflex/fort being an equivalent level ish? At one point each, and 2 for “free action” 3/2 maybe if equipping thors isn’t worth a full point.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #22

If the two purple tokens are different/special, maybe allow transmuting X number of different completion tokens for them, or maybe use them for Patrons as has been mentioned?

I'd agree with the boots being a bit over-powered, maybe make them +3/+3? The rings are usually +4 to one save, but there are two ring slots, so a +3 to two different saves seems apropos.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #23

A lot of these seem great for new players.

Goggles of Protection - I think these have to be compared to Lenses of the Sixth Sense (+2 [or3] to AC), which is in 2023's proposed class of tokens. They need a bump.

Naming conflicts with Belt of the Cat and Cloak of Iron Will have already been pointed out.

+1 to the idea of renaming the bead to Bead of Vitality.
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2023 Participation Tokens 9 months 2 weeks ago #24

Jeff Martin wrote:
A big change I want to make for 2023 is altering the Participation token program. The current program is a bit complicated for newbies to understand with all the various options. Additionally, despite our best efforts, newbies are still being pressured into playing Nightmare when they should be playing much lower.
So...we are going to make it all much simpler. If you play a TD event, you will get a single Rare Participation -- no matter the Challenge Rating. The Uncommons are being eliminated.

truedungeon.com/files/Participation.jpg


This is pretty interesting. It may give more reason for veterans to keep builds suitable for all levels of play for when they play with PUGs. Hopefully this will mean there's less reason to lend out tokens to upgrade parties to Hardcore/Nightmare and more reason to downgrade your own build, since the rewards are going to be the same anyway,

These completion tokens seem to be a downstep in power from previous years, some tokens can be directly compared to previous ones to confirm this (e.g. Charm of Melody vs Charm of the Wind, Earcuff of the Garden vs Earcuff of the Sacred, Ioun Stone Ruby Orb vs Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid). Is this a deliberate design choice to address power creep by releasing newer tokens at a lower power level and building up from there?

The exception would be Boots of the Buccaneer, which as others have mentioned seems too strong for a Rare/Completion pair of boots. The closest comparison would be Boots of Bolting, which grants +3 to a single save and is of comparable power level to other boots which grant +2 to a single stat or a different bonus. Maybe make Boots of the Buccaneer +2 to each of the listed saves?
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