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TOPIC: 2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES !

2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #25

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.

+1
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #26

Matthew Hayward wrote: That being said, +4 to hit is fine given the increase to crit range and is in line with Legendary IO's and pretty much all keen weapons at UR+.


IO's is not restricted to one class. In my opinion that restriction is a big deal that makes this an uneven comparison. Legendries are big fiscal commitments, and if you are going to invest in one, having it tied up to one class is a big trade off.

Edit: I should add, I always respect your opinion Matt, and your perspective in balancing the game at the top tier.
Last edit: by Graven.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #27

I don't See why Kilgor's Can't work for Barbs too. Sure It's 1H, but they should be able to wield it.

Fighters Get 2 ways to keen with legends and the guided strike bead to go with badass bracelets too. seems a bit focused to me.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #28

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Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.

Wizards are no longer polymorphers after this year, so that even edge case wouldn't apply
Last edit: by NightGod.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #29

Graven wrote: Graphics feedback: "The Ring of Psychic Mastery" has a white spot in the middle that looks odd, like part of the picture is missing.


Fixed!
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #30

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


Sorry, but they do boost any 2H Melee or Missile weapon. It's magic!
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #31

Yay
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #32

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.


It’s a shame that the only legendary hand slot is walled behind 2-handed weapons only. That said, fair case for its usefulness to several builds.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #33

Lequinian wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.


It’s a shame that the only legendary hand slot is walled behind 2-handed weapons only. That said, fair case for its usefulness to several builds.


I hear ya, Paladins have Ava’s which Can’t use them. Could use Welfors or The axe but the loose out on our only class legendary. Would help with Io’s but for now I’ll call 2024 a year to save :) this year imma get boraz next year will be a by year on Legendaries :) will take it as a win and save some $ 😂 I know it should help Rouge, Ranger, Barbarian, dwarf fighter… maybe others… depends on the build.. I’m drawing a blank.. looks good! Sign and seal! Great work Team TD with all the artwork and ideas :)
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #34

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wiltey wrote:

OrionW wrote: I think the +4 is a good trade off for the higher crit. 18+ crit is almost too good as there are going to be some very generous sliding boards.

I could see dropping the crit and going with a +8 hit for true synergy with power attack when using Viv’s, but that would be a different weapon entirely.


As a fighter, I am not interested on more +hit, with group bonuses currently 10 power attack is fairly reasonable when you are at the level of using legendary tokens. 5% crit chance is basically the only benefit at this point over Welfor's with an updated damage wheel. Do you really need to -1 hit for 5% crit chance and +4 damage when this is supposed to be the new generation of weapons?


Not every fighter has Viv's already, and this token gives newer Fighters some choices about what legendary to build.

Crit on 18 doesn't amount to 5% in the app rollers (which are weighted) - it could be more or less though so I think your point there is good.

However in live play, for skilled sliders, the difference between needing to hit a 19-20 versus a 18-20 is a substantial benefit that could contribute much more than 1 additional crit per 20 slides.


One last plea before it goes super duper final…

As a HF, I understand going in that i can’t compete on damage. Endgame will throw up charts, but in my experience Barbarian, melee ranger, and monk all hit harder. DF at least get taunt and retribution builds. More hit when I already max power attack and more damage which will get eclipsed.

+4 is an unnecessary downgrade and the 18-20 crit range is nice, but its just some damage. We’re already having requests to add Barbarian and Paladin. When we get to theirs weapons they’ll be Kilgor’s dame plus some plus banish evil outsider or something.

I think synergy with Viv’s and / or a unique identity for Legendary Fighter (human preferably) is not a bad thing. Kilgor’s should stand on its own, but there is nothing wrong with letting the two pieces work together.

Alternative: +5, same wheel. 19-20 (18-20 with Viv’s). DF: Taunt 2 monsters instead of 1. HF: whirlwind - attack first target as normal, but may deal sword’s damage to everything in room (not bonuses).

This gives DF a defensive identity and additional option at high level play. This gives HF an offensive identity. Barb hits one thing credibly hard, HF is a walking fireball. This only rarely comes up, but let’s them do something cool when it does.

(Keeping the bonus for every creature after the first (or second with double strike) is way to good. :( )
(I prefer the +1 to Viv’s double strike, but that didn’t go anywhere on previous suggestions.)
(+8 heal is much better than the +1 originally suggested, but I’d be hacking furniture after combat to reload)
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #35

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.


It’s a shame that the only legendary hand slot is walled behind 2-handed weapons only. That said, fair case for its usefulness to several builds.


I hear ya, Paladins have Ava’s which Can’t use them. Could use Welfors or The axe but the loose out on our only class legendary. Would help with Io’s but for now I’ll call 2024 a year to save :) this year imma get boraz next year will be a by year on Legendaries :) will take it as a win and save some $ 😂 I know it should help Rouge, Ranger, Barbarian, dwarf fighter… maybe others… depends on the build.. I’m drawing a blank.. looks good! Sign and seal! Great work Team TD with all the artwork and ideas :)


My wallet is very safe in 2024. The only things I will need to buy are the reprinted Lenses and Greaves for the multi year. Oh and Volunteer tokens. Maybe I should just do that in 2024.
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2024 Transmuted Token Images < SUPER FINAL IMAGES ! 1 year 2 months ago #36

Kusig wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Lequinian wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kusig wrote: From a thematic standpoint, I can't really understand why Gladiator Gloves boost Guns and Crossbows. Maybe a name change or stick them as 2H Melee damage. I still rather see a pair of gloves that have STR/DEX bonuses that scale to legendary or have a unique ability. At currently, they feel very awkward and while they may boost the classes that are currently lacking in comparision to 1handers lets fix that during characer redesign instead.


I agree, Melee only seems very thematically correct for these gloves.


If there is a change here, change the theme, not the gloves.

Two handed melee only boosting gloves are basically only for Barbarians, each other class has strong reasons to not play two handed melee at legendary:

Bard: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Cleric & Druid: Prevents them from using Drue's Baton of Focus

Fighters: Prevents them from using Kilgor's, and reduces one of the benefits of Vivs

Monk: No good 2 handed melee weapons, disables Flurry of Blows

Paladin: Prevents them from using Ava's, fights thematic desire to use a shield and mechanical desire to have an armor set bonus.

Ranger: Can't use 2 handed melee weapons

Rogue: No good 2 handed melee weapons

Wizards: I suppose for extremely niche cases of Polymorph focused Wizards this is a decent item? But probably they would still rather have +4 to STR gloves because they will need a lot of melee to-hit bonuses ot be effective.

However by including ranged, these tokens offer interesting outlets for:

Ranged: Bards, Druids, Fighters, Paladin, Ranger, Rogue, and even potentially Mystic Stave using Bard/Cleric/Druid/Wizards.


It’s a shame that the only legendary hand slot is walled behind 2-handed weapons only. That said, fair case for its usefulness to several builds.


I hear ya, Paladins have Ava’s which Can’t use them. Could use Welfors or The axe but the loose out on our only class legendary. Would help with Io’s but for now I’ll call 2024 a year to save :) this year imma get boraz next year will be a by year on Legendaries :) will take it as a win and save some $ 😂 I know it should help Rouge, Ranger, Barbarian, dwarf fighter… maybe others… depends on the build.. I’m drawing a blank.. looks good! Sign and seal! Great work Team TD with all the artwork and ideas :)


My wallet is very safe in 2024. The only things I will need to buy are the reprinted Lenses and Greaves for the multi year. Oh and Volunteer tokens. Maybe I should just do that in 2024.


Same, I have the Vol UR, 3 maybe 4 PYP, the spirit pet, chalice, and to finish up my orb of annihilation. Beyond that, VTD and hopefully GEN CON!
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