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TOPIC: 2025 Token FAQ (WIP)

2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 2 months 1 week ago #49

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

OrionW wrote: Any change should be made holistically with the changes on the new Druid Card.

I'm avoiding the new class cards for two reasons: first, Trinkets need to be balanced for the 2024 season, before the new class cards come into effect. Second, we don't know if those new cards have been finalised, or if there will still be multiple rounds of edits.

Once the new cards are finalised, we can tweak Trinkets again to rebalance them for the 2025 season, if necessary. For this, I'd personally prefer to somewhat undertune them initially, then buff them if they aren't where we feel they should be. Why? People don't like seeing nerfs, but people are happy with (reasonably balanced) buffs. Going from each token having a limited number of uses, to simply needing to present a token for a single use? Everyone happy. Going from presenting a token for a single use, to losing the token forever? Everyone upset.

But if you want to talk about the currently proposed class cards, we can.

OrionW wrote: If trinkets aren’t instant actions you can not use the new Druid spells in the first round. This would make the +2 AC cantrip worse than it already is.

If the spells were instant actions you could cast them all at the same time, which I would be okay with, but might be more powerful then they want to make the new spells.

This is false; you can cast those Druid Spells in the first round. Each player gets a Standard Action and a Free Action every round, to be used in whichever order they wish. All of the proposed new self-buffs (Barskin, Nature's Fury, Nature's Wrath) are cast as Free Actions.

If activating a Trinket cost a Standard Action, Druids would be able to spend their Free Action to cast a Spell to buff themselves and their Standard Action to Polymorph on the first round, then start attacking on the second. There is no need for the Spells to be Instant Actions in order to make use of them.

If activating a Trinket cost a Free Action, Druids would not be able to both buff and Polymorph in the same round, but they could cast a buff and attack (with either a Spell or their weapon) on the first round, then Polymorph and attack on the second round. The self-buffs can still be used without being Instant Actions.

If anything, the lack of an Action cost is even more egregious with the new class card: not only is the damage wheel higher than any Rare weapon, but Druids also gain +3 damage from Enhanced Polymorph!


+1 and add to that damage spells and healing spells that can be used when not polymorphed.

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2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 2 months 1 week ago #50

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: If anything, the lack of an Action cost is even more egregious with the new class card: not only is the damage wheel higher than any Rare weapon, but Druids also gain +3 damage from Enhanced Polymorph!

Looking at the proposed 2025 set, if the stars align perfectly, here's what a Druid can find in a sealed 10-pack:
Trinket of Bearform; Amulet of Odin, Gloves of Brutish Brawn; Bead of Baldur, Sea Raider Boot of Fury, Sea Raider Gloves, Sea Raider War Oar
To-hit: +1 (STR) +1 (BoB) +1 (SRG) = +3 total
Damage: ~8 +1 (STR) +3 (innate) +2 (AoO) +1 (SRBoF) = ~15 total
(Note: Druid may cast Nature's Fury (twice per dungeon) for +1/+1, or Nature's Wrath (once) for +2/+0.)

In comparison, here's what a Barbarian could find:
Thor's Gloves of Carnage; Amulet of Odin, Sea Raider Great Axe; Bead of Baldur, Sea Raider Boot of Fury
To-hit: +3 (STR) +1 (BoB) +1 (SRG) = +5 total
Damage: ~5.6 +3 (STR) +4 (innate) +3 (TGoC) +3 (AoO) = ~18.6 total

Or, a Fighter:
Thor's Gloves of Carnage; Amulet of Odin, Sea Raider Great Axe; Bead of Baldur, Sea Raider Boot of Fury
To-hit: +3 (STR) +1 (BoB) +1 (SRG) = +5 total
Damage: ~5.6 +3 (STR) +3 (TGoC) +3 (AoO) = ~14.6 total

Fighters bring no utility beyond hitting with a weapon. Does it seem right that a Druid can reach a similar level of damage, while retaining the ability to cast auto-hitting Spells and heal?
Cleric main / Druid secondary

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Last edit: by Ho-Yi Fung.

2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 2 months 1 week ago #51

I don’t find the fighter argument compelling. They need to be made more interesting on the class card. No one would make the same argument about dwarf fighters and they can use the same gear.

Also the fighter can wear the defender set based on 2025 tokens which makes the argument particularly poorly positioned for this set. If we limited ourselves to just 2025 tokens the fighter is in a good place. It is with tokens from other years that fighters fall way too far behind and need a boost (preferably on the class card).

Edit: at least for this gear level in VTD the new cards may already be moving the fighters in the right direction depending on how more reliable the reslide makes their chance to hit.

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Last edit: by OrionW.

2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 2 months 3 days ago #52

Trinket Use
There is no limit on the number of trinkets you can bring into the dungeon with you nor with the number of times you can use a trinket per room. However, the one monster form per room rule is still in effect. You can go into and out of one particular form within any given room as many times as you like--assuming you have the resources to effect each change. E.g., if you have both Trinket of Trollform and Trinket of Bearform, you could hypothetically cycle between Troll form and your normal humanoid form dozens of times, but you could not cycle back and forth between Troll and Bear within a single room.

Now that the new trinket says 1/game, has the above paragraph changed?
* Can you still bring in any number of trinkets? In particular, could you bring in (for example) multiple Trinkets of Trollform and use one of them in each room (each one only one room per Dungeon)?
* Also, can you still bring in multiple different trinkets and use a different one in each room?

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Last edit: by Mike Steele.

2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 2 months 23 minutes ago #53

Relevant thread for updates on Trinket use: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=257465#456970
(Presumably, once that thread has been finalised, OP will be updated to match.)
Cleric main / Druid secondary

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2025 Token FAQ (WIP) 1 month 2 weeks ago #54

Druegar wrote: ...even if you're able to equip more than one wrists slot item, you may not equip more than one of the Bead slot expander bracelets. (As of this writing, Bead Bracelets, Greater Bead Bracelets, and Bibwik's Bead Bracelets.)


Does this mean there will be a Follower or another token that will allow two wrist items to be equipped? Because having both Charm and Bead expanders equipped at the same time would be pretty awesome. Or is there already an item that does that, and I am simply not aware of it?

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Last edit: by jmb83.
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