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TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #25

Tyraël The Just wrote:

OrionW wrote: IS Ruby Trilliant

Would it be possible to have a new stat that was damage prevention (works against all damage) and set this at a very low number. Further damage prevention would not stack with DR, so this could be a pathway to a much simpler stat that is easier to remember and account for when adjusting HPs in the dungeon. What ever the DM says just subtract the damage prevention.

Just throwing numbers agains the way, but maybe 1,2,4 damage prevention for the transmute path.

Do you mean like - 5 dmg untyped at the UR lvl ?


That would be the idea, but I think -5 at UR might be too much. The player would just have one number to remember.

If the goal was to keep individual damage types, another solution might be to follow in the direction of 5e and have damage resistance that offers half damage, and doesn't stack with the current DR system. This way players only need to remember the elements and not the integer values.

Players manage their own HPs in the dungeon and the current system feels too complex and prone to error.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #26

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote: I was mainly concerned about what happens when combining the Nightshade's weapon ability and the 3x Crit ability, but based on the above, even if the best possible result is slid there's not much difference at all between the new Gloves and the Assassin's Crossbow, so in the end I think Nightshade's Grim Gloves are a really well designed token which will do a good job of closing the current gap between Rogue melee and ranged builds.

This, of course, presumes that the Assassin's crossbow is OK. Some might argue that Rogue with Crossbow deals too much damage, so this is reinforcing a bad tread.


Good point. If the Rogue is overpowered in ranged combat, making him/her equally overpowered in melee combat might not be the correct solution.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #27

Matthew Hayward wrote: Don’t put STR back on the death knight helm. If people want a melee hat just reprint crown of might.

Everyone can use crown of might. There should be a class restricted option for heavy armor classes that is competitive with Cranstons and better than the generic “everyone gets it” crown of might. +3 str probably is still worse than Cranstons, but at least it’s cool and not dramatically worse.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #28

Matthew Hayward wrote: Don’t put STR back on the death knight helm.

If people want a melee hat just reprint crown of might.

Call it Death Lords Crown and make it part of the death knight set if you have to.

This insistence that every slot has to have a death knight item that grants a substantial melee bonus is tiresome. It’s already the best melee armor set at any rarity. What’s next? Death Knight Earcuff - +2 CON and + 2 STR? Death knight sunglasses: +3 STR? Give it a rest.


I kind agree that Death Knight feels overproduced. What about a Paladin/Fighter Helm off the Ancients with +Str? Maybe next year there could be a heavy armor option as well. I believe Ancients is suppose to get a 5 set bonus eventually, so more options would be good.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #29

If it has to have a different name, that's a fine compromise to get +str on a helm for Fighters and Paladin (throw cleric on there for grins if it doesn't hurt). That said, it's pretty awesome to get a themed set to be this guy.

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Last edit: by Endgame.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #30

Matthew Hayward wrote: Don’t put STR back on the death knight helm.

If people want a melee hat just reprint crown of might.

Call it Death Lords Crown and make it part of the death knight set if you have to.

This insistence that every slot has to have a death knight item that grants a substantial melee bonus is tiresome. It’s already the best melee armor set at any rarity. What’s next? Death Knight Earcuff - +2 CON and + 2 STR? Death knight sunglasses: +3 STR? Give it a rest.


I get it but many including myself really love the DK set. As it expands at the UR level, just seems amazing. I know we won’t have one for every slot, but keeping with the main theme of the rest of the set, STR is logical. EVERY current piece outside the shirt and the helm are all STR. I think we should keep with the overall theme of the set.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #31

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote: I was mainly concerned about what happens when combining the Nightshade's weapon ability and the 3x Crit ability, but based on the above, even if the best possible result is slid there's not much difference at all between the new Gloves and the Assassin's Crossbow, so in the end I think Nightshade's Grim Gloves are a really well designed token which will do a good job of closing the current gap between Rogue melee and ranged builds.

This, of course, presumes that the Assassin's crossbow is OK. Some might argue that Rogue with Crossbow deals too much damage, so this is reinforcing a bad tread.


Good point. If the Rogue is overpowered in ranged combat, making him/her equally overpowered in melee combat might not be the correct solution.


If Rogues were overpowered in ranged combat, sure, but that doesn't seem to be the general opinion and given that we are now in the second iteration of a token design very similar to Assassin's Crossbow, it doesn't seem to be a concern to TD either.

For what it's worth though, the gloves are still behind the crossbow as they require a slide of 19-20 and Melee Rogue builds tend to end up with worse stats overall than Ranged ones.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build
Last edit: by Iross.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #32

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Iross wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Iross wrote: I was mainly concerned about what happens when combining the Nightshade's weapon ability and the 3x Crit ability, but based on the above, even if the best possible result is slid there's not much difference at all between the new Gloves and the Assassin's Crossbow, so in the end I think Nightshade's Grim Gloves are a really well designed token which will do a good job of closing the current gap between Rogue melee and ranged builds.

This, of course, presumes that the Assassin's crossbow is OK. Some might argue that Rogue with Crossbow deals too much damage, so this is reinforcing a bad tread.


Good point. If the Rogue is overpowered in ranged combat, making him/her equally overpowered in melee combat might not be the correct solution.


If Rogues were overpowered in ranged combat, sure, but that doesn't seem to be the general opinion and given that we are now in the second iteration of a token design very similar to Assassin's Crossbow, it doesn't seem to be a concern to TD either.

For what it's worth though, the gloves are still behind the crossbow as they require a slide of 19-20 and Melee Rogue builds tend to end up with worse stats overall than Ranged ones.


I guess part of it stems from if you view rogues as more analogous to the classic "thief" archetype or a "swash buckler" which is more inline with the modern idea of rogues as DPS/Assassins.

Personally a rogue doing big splashy sneak attacks very much fits my vision of them perfectly, but I'll fully admit your millage will very.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #33

As I was hinting at in the previous thread, Charm of Valkyrie's Kiss will be abused by MEC Wizards. They will use MEC to get to the bottom-most HP, then use their Thor's Hammer to keep attacking carelessly because their Butterfly Cloak or Cleric, or anyone with a res potion will bring them back in the next room. I just don't feel like it is the intent of the token. It should go back to melee attacks only IMHO.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #34

Bead Necklace: Still think 3 Beads is an awful lot of power. This will pretty much make future UR Neck items very difficult to design.

Belt of the Aesir: Liked this better as Gloves. Also is now more powerful than previous UR Belts that give stat bonuses, with plus 5 Stats, where previous have been +3 or (+4 with a -1). Slot change moved me from would get to definitely won't get.

Coin of Temptation: Still feels like more info is needed on this. Also feel this has a high chance of creating bad feelings in. mixed group situations.

Death Knight Helm: Still feel the Retribution on this piece is misplaced, since the Set bonus is more Retribution. Str on the helm was fine.

Ioun Stone Ruby Trilliant: As described in the FAQ, I agree with the no stacking Trilliants policy. That's speaking as a regular user of the Topaz Trilliant,

Picc's Norn Runestone: Like this a lot.

EDIT: Shield of Attraction: I will again petition to make this item part of the Redoubt Set, in order to give Fighting types who may already be invested in that Set more reason to consider this shield. I really like the shield.

Thor's Mug of Melee: Feels like too much extra damage. Also, class limitations might be in order for this.
Last edit: by AAckeret.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #35

Beertram wrote: As I was hinting at in the previous thread, Charm of Valkyrie's Kiss will be abused by MEC Wizards. They will use MEC to get to the bottom-most HP, then use their Thor's Hammer to keep attacking carelessly because their Butterfly Cloak or Cleric, or anyone with a res potion will bring them back in the next room. I just don't feel like it is the intent of the token. It should go back to melee attacks only IMHO.


I don't understand what the abuse here is. A wizard can already do most of that, but just misses out on sliding a weapon for 1 or 2 rounds?
I guess if your point is that the charm isn't good enough for the other classes that don't sac HP, sure I get that; I have no interest in this item either. But don't try to nerf this item for the one class that might want to use it.
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2025 Ultra Rare Tokens 2 months 2 days ago #36

kurtreznor wrote:

Beertram wrote: As I was hinting at in the previous thread, Charm of Valkyrie's Kiss will be abused by MEC Wizards. They will use MEC to get to the bottom-most HP, then use their Thor's Hammer to keep attacking carelessly because their Butterfly Cloak or Cleric, or anyone with a res potion will bring them back in the next room. I just don't feel like it is the intent of the token. It should go back to melee attacks only IMHO.


I don't understand what the abuse here is. A wizard can already do most of that, but just misses out on sliding a weapon for 1 or 2 rounds?
I guess if your point is that the charm isn't good enough for the other classes that don't sac HP, sure I get that; I have no interest in this item either. But don't try to nerf this item for the one class that might want to use it.


I'm hoping that there is interest in this token beyond HP burning Wizards, because I wouldn't want it if that's it's only purpose. But I agree with you that if the Wizard is already planning on getting resurrected at the end of the room, they could already burn their HP as close to zero as possible and then swing their weapon for as long as possible. I don't think 1-2 extra rounds of a spell-oriented Wizard doing melee attacks is going to affect the battle too much.
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