TOPIC: 2025 Transmuted Tokens

Tyraël The Just wrote: IS Trillants: I love them, artwork is beautiful, effects are not crazy and with the DR Cap I think this curbs the ability to overclock DR and unbalance the game. I real think though, if Darkrift is on the UR, it should also be in the Relic and Legendary.

+1 to this. I love the IS Topaz Trilliant reprint. If we're limited to 20 DR from any particular type, I don't get why Darkrift would drop off the Relic and Legendary. It seems to me that the Relic and Legendary should add damage types, not swap them. As proposed, the Legendary Trilliant doesn't cover exactly the same damage types as the SRoEC (which not everyone has). I could see making it the same types (plus Darkrift), if the goal is to offer something like the SRoEC, but in a different slot and with saves instead of retribution damage. If that isn't the goal, I also like the idea of having it cover different damage types than the SRoEC, such as Acid, Darkrift, Poison, and Sacred (not sure how often the monsters do Sacred to players, though).

I also would support not having the IS Trilliant Relic and Legendary this year, but rather printing a series of 4-6 IS X Trilliant, and having them combine into an Arcanum Trilliant in the future. That feels more analogous to the SRoEC.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: it’s only fair that Bards and Paladins get a class legendary necklace. Not this year I know but it’s a safe slot

During Legendary class necklace years, Bards were given a Legendary instrument, Widseth’s Legendary Lute , and Paladins were given a Legendary mainhand, Ava’s +5 Holy Avenger , in lieu of a class necklace.

If these two classes also get a Legendary class necklace now, other classes will start clamouring for a second class-exclusive Legendary. Each.

Wizards have there own weapons and clerics and Druid’s share a weapon

Fighters also have 2 class specific legendarys

You also have to keep in mind how good Ava's and Widseth's are. They are much stronger than the other legendaries. I would argue Ava's being the strongest. I remember it being stated that the paladin and bard weapons were made stronger because they were not going to get a neck, all along with the fact that you can still equip things like songbird, hand of glory and medallion of Valhalla.

I wanted the bead necklace to stay neck so that there would be a good non-class restricted legendary neck like thors is for weapons.

Sorry for poor editing I'm on my phone and dealing with kids.

Tyraël The Just wrote: … it’s only fair that Bards and Paladins get a class legendary necklace. Not this year I know but it’s a safe slot

I don't understand why people keep banging this drum.

Every class has one (1) class based legendary.

The fact that Bards and Paladin's class based legendaries happen to be in the hands slot does not create a debt or shortfall to those classes of a legendary neck item.

If anything, Paladin's, who are one of three classes that can equip both a legendary helm and a legendary shield and have their choice of 6 different legendary weapons would seem to me to be at the back of the list of classes who are due for another legendary.

Bead Bracelets - Both - Like this slot and amount of Beads much better.

Ioun Stones - Both - I like that the damage types are different from the UR. That makes the UR not immediately outclassed by the Relic and still situationally better. Would maybe suggest changing the damage types on the Relic and Legendary to not overlap as much either to make it also not always a clear choice on which one to take when guessing when going to fight a Yeti, or a Valkyrie, or a Volcano. Also like the total DR Cap.

Bead of Asgard: +3 Feels better to me, especially considering in the near future this will probably affect to hit and damage for STR, DEX, WIS, CHA, and INT. CON may have its uses too.

Bifrost Charm: Also on this one, +3 would feel better. UR Charm is typed +3, Relic could be untyped +3 and still be good. Would any kind of stacking limit with the component Charms for this be called for?.

Spirit Pet Bliss Squirrel: Good to see Grunnel hasn't driven this one off with a broom yet.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: … it’s only fair that Bards and Paladins get a class legendary necklace. Not this year I know but it’s a safe slot

I don't understand why people keep banging this drum.

Every class has one (1) class based legendary.

The fact that Bards and Paladin's class based legendaries happen to be in the hands slot does not create a debt or shortfall to those classes of a legendary neck item.

If anything, Paladin's, who are one of three classes that can equip both a legendary helm and a legendary shield and have their choice of 6 different legendary weapons would seem to me to be at the back of the list of classes who are due for another legendary.

I’m not complaining about quantity, it’s about the the neck slot being shifted away from the expander to not compete with class legendarys. I understand that TDA owes me nothing

There are 37 legendaries. Class with fewest options, at 17, is monk. Bard is tied at 18 with rogue and wizards. Paladin has third most options behind fighters.

Bard has a signature neck item in Songbird, though a rare being signature is odd.

Paladin has more coherent signature neck item of Amulet of Guarding, which was a topic of conversation when paladin got Ava's. Transmute path for Amulet of Guarding someday is easy enough to design with getting the Guard vs missile, Guard vs spells, or whatever protective specials like giving everyone bonus AC, giving paladin immunity to petrification/poison, etc. There are always possibilities for putting abilities on different tokens.

I know the ship has sailed, but I also wanted to see it as a neck slot to compete with the class legendaries. What do caster Druids, or melee Rangers have now? Not much. Would be nice to support more play styles.

payden wrote:
You also have to keep in mind how good Ava's and Widseth's are. They are much stronger than the other legendaries. I would argue Ava's being the strongest. I remember it being stated that the paladin and bard weapons were made stronger because they were not going to get a neck, all along with the fact that you can still equip things like songbird, hand of glory and medallion of Valhalla.

Widseths maybe, though I'd put Ashennes,Vivs, Benrows, Bogs, and Raphaels's ahead of it. Not in that order.

Ralsons, bogs, and Druegars are all also ahead of Ava's

I like Iktomi's, but even I have to agree it is the one legendary behind Ava's

I'm genuinely surprised to hear anyone thinks Avas is OP.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote: I really like the Bead of Asgard and Charm of Bifrost!

IS Trillants: I love them, artwork is beautiful, effects are not crazy and with the DR Cap I think this curbs the ability to overclock DR and unbalance the game. I real think though, if Darkrift is on the UR, it should also be in the Relic and Legendary. Lastly I’d still like to suggest a name change to the Relic and /or Legendary.

IS Safír Trillant
IS Sólarstein Trillant

These are the Nordic words for Sapphire and Sunstone.

Finally I wanted to loop back to the Bead Expander Bibwiks: I’m really confused as to the change. I can get behind the reduction of the expansion I can understand. Though it capping at 8 when the expand gets you to 7 feels weird. What I really am struggling with is the change to wrist. In the neck slot ( which there is only one slot ) there are 8 class legendarys. At least in the neck slot it forced an extremely hard choice. Use you class legendary necklace, or the expander. In the wrist slot, there is no class legendary. In thr neck slot you could expand your beads, or enhance your classes powers. I think choosing between a class legendary vs other legendarys forces a much harder character load out choice. Enhance special abilities specific to your class, or expand your beads. I would highly suggest going back to the neck. If the hard cap for beads is 8 unlike charms anc IS which are at 9 and 10.. I think 2/3/5 may suit better allowing for the cap to be hit with the expander. Leaving an odd one out just feels… unfinished.

Or……since the neck slot is a safe bet that slot expanders won’t interfere with Class Legendary Necklaces ( in 20 years of TD there hasn’t been 1 necklace that accommodates multiple classes outside fighters and wizards cover both types of fighters and wizards ) … it’s only fair that Bards and Paladins get a class legendary necklace. Not this year I know but it’s a safe slot

For Bard.. I vote a beefed up Songbird Necklace.
For Paladin. I vote a beefed up Amulet of Guarding.
I agree with Arguments for a Druid Necklace that isn't Polymorph, also doing something to make Iktomi's more appealing over the relic. I also think that many druids forget about it granting spellcasting while Poly and free use- no consume poly potions. over the relic.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:
You also have to keep in mind how good
Widseths maybe, though I'd put Ashennes,Vivs, Benrows, Bogs, and Raphaels's ahead of it. Not in that order.

Ralsons, bogs, and Druegars are all also ahead of Ava's

I like Iktomi's, but even I have to agree it is the one legendary behind Ava's

I'm genuinely surprised to hear anyone thinks Avas is OP.

I main Wizard/Elf wizard and really wasn't very happy with the legendary but I do see how people could think that it's good. If the bead necklace was still a thing I would drop it though.

I'm my thoughts of Ava's being one of the best weapons

- +5 weapon
- solid damage wheel at 10 average base damage
- has an insta kill on a enemy type that until recently we saw an awful lot of
- can use grace twice a game which I think is a great ability that can cancel a team wipe, insta kill or just a bunch of damage.
- one handed so you can get bonuses from shields
- gives the class specific neck ur ability baked In so you essentially get two neck slots
- No opinion on LoH, better than nothing but not great

My opinions are often though

Don't get me wrong, I like and enjoy Ava's, I just don't think it's good enough to compete.

Note the extra guard is one room, not every room.

Ah... I definitely missed that bit thanks for the info.