TOPIC: 2025 Transmuted Tokens

I understand all the posts about the power of the Tilliant.
However, as someone who came to the party a bit to late for the SRoEC, I watch so many party members mitigating big chunks of damage in the VTD NM runs and welcome the chance at a new token to share in that pie a little bit. So, I get the arguments about creep and relative slot value and pretty much everything said in the so last many posts. However, I still personally hope it stays where it is. I also reserve the right to regret this position;)

Everything looks good! I know I am a part of a smaller group but I do like the Trillant path and think it’s good. It’s come a long way from the start and with the DR cap in effect, I think since it has remained the same the last 3 rounds.. this is what TD is going with. Excited to see what others are in store for Mythics.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote: IS Sunstone Trilliant:
-10 DR is a lot; still against it but it's been said a lot and still unchanged, so I presume that number won't be budging.
Progression is higher than other Legendary lines, going from 1 -> 2 -> 6 elemental resistances. For comparison, other recent Legendary lines include Gregor's (5 -> 6 -> 8), Boaz's (2 -> 3 -> 5), Vim's (2 -> 4 -> 6), Luna's (2 -> 3 -> 4), Muk's (2 -> 4 -> 6). This would be more in-line with others if it granted 1 -> 2 -> 4 elemental resistances instead.

+1
Four elements would be fine.

Marc D wrote: Just to pile on here that -10 damage from 6 different elemental is quite a lot for 1 token, especially in a slot that allows multiple items like Ioun Stone. That seems Mythic level of utility.

I like the suggestion that the legendary should give a +1 saves bump bring the total elements to 3. I'm not partial to anything in particular, but Force or Psychic would seem to be in theme as damage types frequently found on bosses.

My biggest concern is that I'll no longer be able to play in Nightmare groups if module design starts to account for this token.

+1. This is a valid concern.

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd love for the Arcanum Ring to be powerful and fun. The first three Eldritch tokens were great (RotSP, SRoEC, BotFW) but all the Eldritch and Arcanum tokens since then have been underpowered and unpopular. I hope we can boost the power levels up on remaining Arcanum tokens.

Kilt of Dungeonbane and Arcanum Shirt are underpowered?

I think the shirt is fine / good, but both it and the kilt suffer the same fate of offering less of the peak bonus to a stat offered by their ingredients.

For instance Shirt of the Arcanum offers +2 STR, and Shirt of the Oaf offers +3.

Shirt of the Arcanum does a lot of other stuff too - but if you really, really want strength Arcanum may be worse or only marginally better than Shirt of the Oaf.

I think Kilt of Dungeonbane is fine, but a lot of people had crazy expectations for it (e.g. it would be +4, 5, or even 6 to each of STR/DEX/CON).

Regardless of what I think, the market has spoken on Kilt of Dungeonbane, which is readily available for under $200, when its ingredients cost close to $400. That is very bad when compared to the prior eldritch items which all go for a substantial premium over the cost of their ingredients.

The power of the shirt and kilt is entirely detached from the price. You see both regularly in builds posted on discord. The thing is, both were easy to make, and the kilt doubly so. Vast quantities were made, and there still aren’t enough UR+ TD players to absorb the extra. Double the size of the invested player base and you might see the price come up

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Ho-Yi Fung wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I'd love for the Arcanum Ring to be powerful and fun. The first three Eldritch tokens were great (RotSP, SRoEC, BotFW) but all the Eldritch and Arcanum tokens since then have been underpowered and unpopular. I hope we can boost the power levels up on remaining Arcanum tokens.

Kilt of Dungeonbane and Arcanum Shirt are underpowered?

I think the shirt is fine / good, but both it and the kilt suffer the same fate of offering less of the peak bonus to a stat offered by their ingredients.

For instance Shirt of the Arcanum offers +2 STR, and Shirt of the Oaf offers +3.

Shirt of the Arcanum does a lot of other stuff too - but if you really, really want strength Arcanum may be worse or only marginally better than Shirt of the Oaf.

I think Kilt of Dungeonbane is fine, but a lot of people had crazy expectations for it (e.g. it would be +4, 5, or even 6 to each of STR/DEX/CON).

Regardless of what I think, the market has spoken on Kilt of Dungeonbane, which is readily available for under $200, when its ingredients cost close to $400. That is very bad when compared to the prior eldritch items which all go for a substantial premium over the cost of their ingredients.

I was a proponent during the Kilt design process to make it +6 to any one of STR/DEX/CON. That would have made it better than any of the UR's that went into it. As you mention, the BotFW and SRoEC are both noticeably better than any of the UR recipe tokens, but the Kilt and the Shirt are not. I'm hoping that future Arcanum or other multi-year transmuted tokens are a bump up in power from the UR tokens in their recipe, like the BotFW and SRoEC were.

I know that we're getting towards the end and locking down designs here, but I do want to make one more plea to increase the power on Ring of the Dire Ram to even just be 1/room or give it some fun little extra like "can push an object weighing 5# or less w/in 30'"

Reasoning behind this:
* Last year, the Figurine of Power: Stalker Squirrel had a very similar ability (6 Force damage 1/game)
* The Figurine is arguably better than the Ring of the Dire Ram because the Figuring functions as an instant action and the ring takes a free action.
* Compared to other 4* Rings like the +6 saves or +2 con, this ring does significantly less for a player
* It also does significantly less than a generic +1 damage ring would do throughout an adventure

In its current form, I have a difficult time seeing even newer players spending trade goods to craft the Ring of the Dire Ram. I understand the intent is to push a weakened monster over the edge and to defeat.

I have a soft spot for 4* transmutes as they're what got me deeper into the token game and crafting system. I'd really love to keep that sentiment going for the next round of players.

That said, I also want to say that I really like how the Shirt of Humble Luck/Shirt of Modest Luck ended up. I think there's a "hidden" group of players that engage with the game at a certain level that doesn't include Relics but does include 10-pack bricks and the occasional UR. So seeing support for those players with items like Shirt of Modest Luck and Enchanter's Whetstone is very nice!

I missed the majority of token creation this year so I'm not familiar with the context of how things arrived here. The feedback I have is that most of these tokens look pretty exciting, but I do not understand why there'd be another strong legendary in the wrists slot so close to the last time one was printed. I understand that there are people who do not appreciate slot expanders, but given that it took a few years to get a bead expander and that this will likely block any additional bead expanders due to its existence for a couple of years it leaves me with a bad feeling. I'm happy to provide alternate ideas if desired, but I wanted to just provide feedback for now.