TOPIC: Safehold I and Mythic Token Ideas

Griping aside, some Mythic token ideas:

Mythic Cloak - +7 to saves, absorb one melee or missile hit per game

Mythic Bracers - +2 Ioun, +2 Charm, +1 Bead slots

Mythic Belt - +11 STR

Mythic Figurine of Power: Mimic - Usable 1/room, choose an unused power from the list:
Negate effect of failed save
Absorb one melee or missile hit
Deal 10 points of Darkrift damage to 1 target
If you die in room 1-6 and are not revived, reappear in next room with 10 HP

Mythic Demon Prince's Raiment (Torso slot) - +4 to DEX, INT, CHA, and WIS, you may equip an additional torso slot item you could normally equip, so long as that item is also usable by either Rogues or Wizards.

Mythic Ring of Channeling - Add your spell damage modifier to any "as a scroll" single target damage spell effects

Mythic Charm of Enlightened Synergy - Gain immunity to surprise and +1 AC, HP, Saves, and party initiative for each Charm of Enlightened Synergy in the party. Counts as a Charm of Awakened Synergy but you may not equip both.

Mythic Totem of Reflection - Gain the effect of any two different Legendary "Totem" tokens of your choice

Mythic Earcuff of the Hydra - You may equip 2 neck slot items total

Mythic Ring of Miracles - Special unique effect each year, or you may select one of the Amulet/Ring of wonder effect, UR Special? effect, or Eldritch Runestone effects instead.

Mythic Charm of Frenzy - +8 damage and first natural 20 in room does 3x damage with two handed melee weapons

Mythic Bracers of Infallibility - Bypass crit and sneak attack immunity, damage reduction, damage type resistance or immunity, or spell resistance
(does not bypass things not listed above, such as a 50% miss chance, or a monster that requires you to slide an odd number to hit, or requires a henchmen be killed before it can take damage, etc.).

Mythic Quadruple Vision - +4 to hit, +4 to focus, You may divide single target healing and damage spell total heal/damage among up to 4 targets

Mythic Charm of Investment - You deal no damage in the first round of combat, 2x damage in the 2nd round and beyond

Mythic Earcuff of Adaptability - You may equip up to two tokens usable by your class as if they were slotless, as long as they: Don't affect the party card, don't effect slots, don't violate other rules (e.g. no double equipping the same token)

Mythic Everflowing Chalice - Turn in a rare consumable token in coaching to gain any of its effects that impact the party card recorded on the party card for the run.

Ring of Apotheosis - +8 HP, +2 to the stat of your choice, You may use one class spell or special power without marking it off your card 1/room.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: 3) The powers of the Mythic tokens should roughly double those powers of Legendary tokens, but they should cost about 50% more than a 2025 Legendary due to the big cost to make a Safehold I token. Let’s make the recipes the exact same for all Mythic tokens (except the Coin of Wealth).

This seems against the grain of previous rarity/cost tradeoffs in TD.

A rare costs maybe 10x a common and gives around +1 to hit and damage.

An Ultra Rare costs maybe 50x of a rare and gives around +1 to hit and damage, or +1 to saves, or +1 to focus over a rare.

A Relic costs 2-5x an UR and gives +1 to hit and damage, or +1 to saves, etc. over a UR.

A Legendary costs 3-5x a Relic and gives +2 to hit and damage, or +2 to saves, etc. over a Relic

But the final Mythic step costs 1.5x a Legendary and gives +5 to hit and damage, or +6 to saves, etc. over a Legendary?

Safehold I owners are fairly compensated for the costs of building a safehold with their six additional build slots (2 hirelings, 2 underlings, 1 follower, 1 henchman) - they don't need a further incentive of relatively cheap Mythic tokens at the end of the rainbow, in my opinion.

Anyway, TL:DR; I'd advocate for Mythics:

Recipes should: cost in the 3-5x of a Legendary range (Or include a Legendary in the Recipe and have a 2-4x Legendary additional trade good costs)

Powers Provided should be in the range of the Relic to Legendary jump - e.g. an additional +2 to hit and damage, +2 to saves, +2 to focus, etc. over a Legendary.

If Mythics only cost 50% more than Legendary tokens, I'm not sure there's even a need for Mythic tokens, perhaps just make more Legendaries at a higher cost. A Mythic token seems like it should be an incredible achievement to transmute them, and a smaller percentage of the player base would likely be able to transmute them than currently transmute Legendaries.

Well, removing Epic sure sounds like it is going to stink for anyone who hasn't been making annual 8k orders but has built up enough of a collection to be able to play Epic. Anyone in that group, including me, will be faced with the alternative of a Nightmare difficulty which is too easy, or a Mythic difficulty which is too hard, due to a lack of Mythic tokens.

Obviously there are options there: spend money and gear up, or sell tokens/gear down. However, that's not a fun choice, and I don't see the necessity of forcing folks into it who have been playing for a long time.

This continues to make me less excited to play TD.

More or less, removing Epic takes this from: "Mythic probably isn't for me, I don't spend enough money on this game" to "directly negatively impacts my enjoyment of the game."

Mike Steele wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: 3) The powers of the Mythic tokens should roughly double those powers of Legendary tokens, but they should cost about 50% more than a 2025 Legendary due to the big cost to make a Safehold I token. Let’s make the recipes the exact same for all Mythic tokens (except the Coin of Wealth).

This seems against the grain of previous rarity/cost tradeoffs in TD.

(snip).

If Mythics only cost 50% more than Legendary tokens, I'm not sure there's even a need for Mythic tokens...(snip)

I had a similar feeling but couldn't quite articulate it as well as you did here.

I am against these new mythic tokens costing 5x more as suggested. That is honestly wild. No one will play it. Broken records and all.

I will be loudly on the opposite side of that argument. As for what the mythic tokens will be and how can the difficulty can be played, I’ll wait until people better at design than I am come up with a base set of 12

I'll add some thoughts as well:

1. Don't get rid of Epic and add Mythic as a higher level. There would be no qualifications to play Mythic difficulty, it's just really hard. I've come to think of the difficulty as:
Normal: Use your 10 pack or small collection; Safehold 1 if they transmuted one.
Hardcore: Use mostly rares; Safehold 2 if they have one.
Nightmare: Use super rares; Safehold 3 if they have one.
Epic: Use legendaries, relics, and super rares; Safehold 4 if they have one.
Mythic: Use mythic, legendaries, relics; Safehold 1 if they have one.

Safeholds are not requirements, but to not be overpowered, I personally set limits on not using a higher level Safehold for what I play. I play nightmare, so I wouldn't personally equip a Safehold 2.

2. Would it just not be easier to have 1 Survivor button but print level difficulty stickers? That way everyone could just slap a sticker on their survivor button when they are done. Just a thought.

3. There are, what 24 slots for tokens? So for Mythic, I would start with 6-12 mythic tokens out of the gate, then each year add a new mythic token. So that way after 12-18 years you would have 24 mythic tokens. This solves a lot of issues and with just 1 mythic token a year it gives the super collectors something to look forward to each year. Then you've got 12 years to think about where the game goes from there. You could have 1 Mythic token for each slot and if you equip all of them, you get some type of special God power. Mythic set bonus? It could have tiers.

4. The game seems to have a natural progression up the token level. In my opinion, a Mythic token is worth 2 legendaries, so it should cost around $2,000-$2,500. So aim for that in trade token costs. If a 25k bar costs $350, then a $100k bar costs $1,400. Then you fill out the rest in trade tokens of various denominations to get to the overall money cost. I really think this is how you have to start thinking about how to break down the recipe for these because what should a Mythic token cost? $2,000 is my recommendation, but maybe $2,500 no more than $3,000.

5. The Coin of Wealth's real benefit is removing the Charm of Avarice, 3 Beads, and 3 Nuggets from everyone's builds and make them slotless. The extra treasure chip isn't worth it. People playing on Epic or Mythic need those slots back to add Mythic tokens and other tokens to survive the difficulty. So what is that worth to people? They already paid for a Safehold I. In my opinion, the Coin of Wealth recipe should be:
Charm of Avarice
The 3 TE Beads
The 3 Nuggets (can someone explain why people don't want these in the mix??? Omni Orb can fill in for
Silver nugget)
$25k Bar x 2
All other trade tokens x 10

That makes the total cost $1,000 and why would I want that? Because we know most people are only getting the Coin to free up slots and not for the extra treasure and they will never play Mythic. I don't like the thought it should be 2-3 times more than a 2025 legendary. Because on top of the $1,000 they already paid $1,000 for the CoA, 250 for the beads, 250 for the nuggets, and $2,000 for the Safehold 1.

6. Otherwise I don't have any thoughts on the actual Mythic tokens. But I think before people get into designing the tokens, the actual program needs to be thought out like this, then you can design the 12 starting tokens.

Just a reminder about the nuggets, this is from the Safehold PDF:

Anyone who shows a SAFEHOLD I token in Coaching gains the benefit of having IOUN STONE SILVER NUGGET, IOUN STONE GOLD NUGGET AND IOUN STONE PLATINUM NUGGET tokens become slotless to equip.

I feel like that shouldn't change at this point as people have already been working on progressing their Safeholds.

Corey Pressler wrote: (snip).... In my opinion, the Coin of Wealth recipe should be:
Charm of Avarice
The 3 TE Beads
The 3 Nuggets (can someone explain why people don't want these in the mix??? Omni Orb can fill in for
Silver nugget)
...(snip)...

Because it was promised by TD, more than 8 years ago, and before any of the nuggets were ever printed, that they would never be used in a transmute recipe.

Many people would prefer TD honor their commitments about collectible tokens.

From: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=527&id=244042&start=0

Jeff Martin wrote: Due to many factors and the development of the "Nugget" Ioun Stones, I thought it would be best to go ahead and make these clarifications.

1) We will publish an Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2017, an Ioun Stone Gold Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2019, and an Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2021. These three tokens will stack with each other because they have slightly different names. They will stack with the Charm of Avarice.

2) There will be no transmuted token that uses any of the three Ioun Stone Nuggets in its recipe.
...(snip)...

Reap wrote: Just a reminder about the nuggets, this is from the Safehold PDF:

Anyone who shows a SAFEHOLD I token in Coaching gains the benefit of having IOUN STONE SILVER NUGGET, IOUN STONE GOLD NUGGET AND IOUN STONE PLATINUM NUGGET tokens become slotless to equip.

I feel like that shouldn't change at this point as people have already been working on progressing their Safeholds.

Lol - good catch.

All the more reason for Mythics to not be cheap.

Getting to Safehold 1 effectively grants an incredible 9 build slots, and raises the cap on Iouns to 12 over non-Safehold-ers before a single Mythic is crafted (provided one would have equipped the Ioun TEs).

There is no need for tokens that double the power of a legendary at 1.5x the cost as a payoff for crafting Safehold 1.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Corey Pressler wrote: (snip).... In my opinion, the Coin of Wealth recipe should be:
Charm of Avarice
The 3 TE Beads
The 3 Nuggets (can someone explain why people don't want these in the mix??? Omni Orb can fill in for
Silver nugget)
...(snip)...

Because it was promised by TD, more than 8 years ago, and before any of the nuggets were ever printed, that they would never be used in a transmute recipe.

Many people would prefer TD honor their commitments about collectible tokens.

From: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=527&id=244042&start=0

Jeff Martin wrote: Due to many factors and the development of the "Nugget" Ioun Stones, I thought it would be best to go ahead and make these clarifications.

1) We will publish an Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2017, an Ioun Stone Gold Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2019, and an Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2021. These three tokens will stack with each other because they have slightly different names. They will stack with the Charm of Avarice.

2) There will be no transmuted token that uses any of the three Ioun Stone Nuggets in its recipe.
...(snip)...

This has been mentioned to you before:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=258183#462132

Is there something about this explanation that doesn't make sense?

My thought was that the Coin of Wealth would provide the benefits of the 3 Nuggets, wouldn't stack of course with the Nuggets, but instead of having nuggets in the recipe it would be something like "any 10 UR Treasure Enhancing tokens" in addition to the CoA, 3 TE Beads and all the other trade item/GP tokens.

I do understand the line of thinking that might undercut the Safehold I making the three nuggets slotless. Maybe the Safehold I bonus could be changed to something else. It wouldn't impact anyone since none have been transmuted yet.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: So, we will have Non-Lethal, Normal, Nightmare and Mythic DR, but only Normal and Mythic give out Survivor buttons.

Clarification - does this mean the Hardcore difficulty rating is going away?

Sorry...I missed Hardcore. It stays. You will get a non-Mythic Survivor button for surviving any non-Mythic run.

Just for clarification, I do recall that having the ioun stones not part of the recipe was promised, but I don't feel like it was ever explained to me why... until now. Just telling me that Jeff promised not to do it 8 years ago never explained why anyone would want that, but from what I'm hearing is its because token collectors don't want to lose those tokens to the transmute. That makes sense and I forget sometimes there is that part of the community. I guess we are all collectors, but it never mattered to me, but I get why it would to collectors. I have no issues with those not being part of the recipe now that I understand. Yes, having the coin of wealth making them slotless make sense.

I'm not trying to make things difficult, I want everyone to be happy.