TOPIC: Counterfeit Token Concerns

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: This is why I have stopped buying collections for a while.
All my CoA have come from TD. All rod seg we're verified.

Same here, all of my high end tokens came directly from TD.

I do hope that they find and prosecute the counterfeiters, that might help discourage it in the future. It is such a small community, that should be easier to do than with something like Magic.

As I have sold a few of them and might have concerned buyers, all of my CoAs were transmuted at WYC this year.

Steve wrote: In that respect CoA is a perfect target, as would be any of the $1000+ tokens.
Supreme Rings, Rods, etc.

Supreme Ring and RoSP would be much more problematic, in my opinion. You'd need to either create a green token, paint a token green, or destroy an Eldritch Relic to create a fake one.

The Charm of Avarice, on the other hand, has a gold-backed token, so you could theoretically replace the label on a common and create a CoA. That seems very affordable. Same with HoP and RoSP segs 1 and 2.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: This is why I have stopped buying collections for a while.
All my CoA have come from TD. All rod seg we're verified.

ditto.

i found that i had more than a couple of fakes this year. i am currently going through ALL my tokens. as i verify them, i will be willing to trade or sell the real ones. any fakes or suspicious ones i will send to jmartin.

smakdown wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: This is why I have stopped buying collections for a while.
All my CoA have come from TD. All rod seg we're verified.

ditto.

i found that i had more than a couple of fakes this year. i am currently going through ALL my tokens. as i verify them, i will be willing to trade or sell the real ones. any fakes or suspicious ones i will send to jmartin.

yep..agreed

Donald Rients wrote: Seems like they were looking at the CoAs closely at GenCon. That was the first tokens they asked for and they were scrutinized closely when we did our first run on Thursday.

I know everyone in my group was checked for theirs at least twice.

Kaledor wrote:

Donald Rients wrote: Seems like they were looking at the CoAs closely at GenCon. That was the first tokens they asked for and they were scrutinized closely when we did our first run on Thursday.

I know everyone in my group was checked for theirs at least twice.

Keep in mind the coaches are NOT experts in this matter.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Supreme Ring and RoSP would be much more problematic, in my opinion. You'd need to either create a green token, paint a token green, or destroy an Eldritch Relic to create a fake one.

The Charm of Avarice, on the other hand, has a gold-backed token, so you could theoretically replace the label on a common and create a CoA. That seems very affordable. Same with HoP and RoSP segs 1 and 2.

Oh, good point, I forgot that they are green tokens.

I sold a bunch of UR and Relic tokens this year. All my Relics were directly from TD. 90% of my UR's were direct from TD as well, and the few that weren't I purchased years ago before the counterfeiting.

All of the UR's and Relics I have purchased recently have come from reputable sellers, but I have double checked with all of them already - they got their tokens direct from TD. So, luckily I was able to verify the provenance of my high value tokens pretty quickly.

That said, I love the idea of Relics, Legendary and Eldritch items having serial numbers. An online DB would be easy to create so you could at least verify the original owner. And that way if you did have concerns and the serial number turned out to be valid, but you still had concerns even after that you could contact TD and ask them to reach out to the original owner to see if it was sold/traded and to who.... It would make tracing real and counterfeit high value tokens pretty easy.

Thank you Jeff for letting us know and thank you for taking hard steps to squash this as quickly as possible.

YupImJen wrote:

Kaledor wrote:

Donald Rients wrote: Seems like they were looking at the CoAs closely at GenCon. That was the first tokens they asked for and they were scrutinized closely when we did our first run on Thursday.

I know everyone in my group was checked for theirs at least twice.

Keep in mind the coaches are NOT experts in this matter.

Nope they are not... Kubu has been around for a long time so have I. Ours came from TD. Was just stating the coaches were checking.

I have posted this several times before in other threads and received surprisingly little interest. Perhaps now the idea of numbered tokens PLUS a registration system (ideally an official one, if not an unofficial one works almost as well) will gain traction.

Minimum Solution

Jeff allows in-person trade-in (WYC or GenCon) for Legendary, Relic, and Eldritch tokens in exchange for numbered/serialed versions. I'd be happy to pay a small fee to offset this cost. The community can create an unofficial registration system like Incognito did with the RoSP.

Additional anti-counterfeit measures would also be a big plus, even if they aren't made public (or especially if they aren't made public?).

Better Solution

Minimum solution PLUS an official registration system, ideally right here and tied to your TD account. I'd be willing to pay a small fee to help offset Jeff's time and cost on this. This would have a few features:

1. Jeff registers all numbered tokens to the user as they are sent out (when possible). Additionally if you have an unregistered token you could show it at WYC or GenCon and get it registered.
2. I can click a link next to a registered token to have an official email sent to somebody who is looking to buy it, proving that it is registered to me.
3. I can click a link next to a registered token to transfer that to another user.
4. I can click a link to report a token as lost or stolen (and a link to say it has been found again if that happens).
5. Any user can see a list of all lost/stolen tokens, their numbers, and their last registered owner.

This would really help us find and identify counterfeit, lost, or stolen tokens.

Best Solution

Once we have numbered tokens and an official registration system, Jeff could offer a "registered token replacement program" where you can report a token as lost or stolen and for a fee (say $25-$50) receive a new one with a new number. Obviously the lost/stolen one will remain on the lost/stolen list until recovered and destroyed.

I was with you up until the last one.