TOPIC: Token Draw Happiness

Forar wrote: Just the perspective of someone who definitely isn't a big roller with four or five figures in tokens to use. A simple reminder that if the community/player base is to grow, a lot of those will not own or be lucky enough to run with CoA (or other treasure enhancers) to spare.

Don't worry I bet we will be in a run together at some point and then you can share in the bounty of tokens from heaven.

jedibcg wrote:

Forar wrote: Just the perspective of someone who definitely isn't a big roller with four or five figures in tokens to use. A simple reminder that if the community/player base is to grow, a lot of those will not own or be lucky enough to run with CoA (or other treasure enhancers) to spare.

Don't worry I bet we will be in a run together at some point and then you can share in the bounty of tokens from heaven.

That'd be awesome.

I'm something of an occasional lurker, exchanging PM's with some awesome folks behind the scenes, but will definitely be checking in once GC2017 starts sorting out in earnest. And while getting a single token wasn't exactly a highlight of the adventure (drawing more treasure is totally part of the appeal), it wasn't a sour enough experience to put us off coming back.

Honestly, as a bit of a newcomer, I'd be kind of heartened to know that the treasure draws were weighted a bit on the generous side. I respect that there are complicated factors behind TD remaining profitable (they have to pay rent/mortgage like anyone else), a secondary market existing, etc, but even knowing that at least I'm likely to get something from those boxes that I probably didn't find in my random 10 packs would be nice. I mean, it's supposed to be 'treasure'. Who's excited to hear the DM say "well, you don't find anything of particular value, but the orcs you killed had 25 gold between them and a rusty sword that looks about on par with what you're already carrying..."? I'm sure someone is, but that someone isn't me. :-P

I know lots of players just build up from the starter pack they started with. If so then a rare weapon is really good because you probably started with a common.

If I had core group that I could trust to do it. It might be fun to do a variant of sealed. Start when the story arc starts run with the same 9 other people for an entire arc and the only tokens you get are your original starting 10 and the treasure you pull. You cannot do use any other starter packs from the other adventures you run. You can make it greedy because people like to pull tokens, but only the first 3 tokens pulls count towards building your character. You could trade tokens amongst your group. Plan would be to do normal year one, hardcore year two and nightmare year 3. If you die you are out of the group, unless someone did pull something to bring you back. I think it would be fun, but maybe its just me.

that sounds awesome

If 1 in ten groups has max pulls, and the rest are just getting 3 each, the average chips per player is 4.4. Now, I am wagering that more than 1 in ten runs with max pulls and quite a few other players have some form of enhancement for treasure.

If 10% of the groups are maxed, 10% have AoTF, 10% have Lenses of Fortune, and the remainder are sitting at the minimum, the average goes up to 4.9 pulls per player. I had just picked 8 out of thin are, but I bet the average is somewhere between 6 and 7.

My first PYP was the Ring of RIches, which didn't pay off until the year of the Wertz box.

balthasar wrote: If 1 in ten groups has max pulls, and the rest are just getting 3 each, the average chips per player is 4.4. Now, I am wagering that more than 1 in ten runs with max pulls and quite a few other players have some form of enhancement for treasure.

If 10% of the groups are maxed, 10% have AoTF, 10% have Lenses of Fortune, and the remainder are sitting at the minimum, the average goes up to 4.9 pulls per player. I had just picked 8 out of thin are, but I bet the average is somewhere between 6 and 7.

My first PYP was the Ring of RIches, which didn't pay off until the year of the Wertz box.

What was the Wertz box?

Phiswiz wrote:

balthasar wrote: If 1 in ten groups has max pulls, and the rest are just getting 3 each, the average chips per player is 4.4. Now, I am wagering that more than 1 in ten runs with max pulls and quite a few other players have some form of enhancement for treasure.

If 10% of the groups are maxed, 10% have AoTF, 10% have Lenses of Fortune, and the remainder are sitting at the minimum, the average goes up to 4.9 pulls per player. I had just picked 8 out of thin air, but I bet the average is somewhere between 6 and 7.

My first PYP was the Ring of RIches, which didn't pay off until the year of the Wertz box.

What was the Wertz box?

The box was named after a character from Diablo. You found his peg leg and you could get it transmuted into something useful in the game. One year, a veteran turned in a special token to Jeff and asked that the boxes have transmuted tokens thrown into the treasure boxes.

balthasar wrote: If 1 in ten groups has max pulls, and the rest are just getting 3 each, the average chips per player is 4.4. Now, I am wagering that more than 1 in ten runs with max pulls and quite a few other players have some form of enhancement for treasure.

If 10% of the groups are maxed, 10% have AoTF, 10% have Lenses of Fortune, and the remainder are sitting at the minimum, the average goes up to 4.9 pulls per player. I had just picked 8 out of thin are, but I bet the average is somewhere between 6 and 7.

My first PYP was the Ring of RIches, which didn't pay off until the year of the Wertz box.

I don't know that 1 in 10 groups has max pulls. I will give you that more than 10% has more than 3 pulls or 30 total. I would guess the number of groups pulling more than 30 total (whether they actually were a group doesn't mater). But I also would guess then number of groups that had a full 10 people with 10 CoA's is lower than 1 in 10. A coach might know the answer to that better than anyone else. I still think you are probably correct them number is around 6 on average or 60 for the run. If it is that is 48,000 treasure draws. I don't know how many anyone else drew (besides what has been put on the forums), but that means my draws didn't even represent 2% of the total draws so I don't think we can safely say what the percentages of different things were without more data. I do know mastered had a large number of draws so I am waiting to get that data from him. If anyone else wants to contribute I might just make a google doc that folks can input their numbers into.

Personally, I hope this year's treasure mix is the new norm and is here to stay. I have a finite budget allocated to purchases from True Adventures, purchases on the reseller market, and tickets for runs. The real possibility of pulling an UR+ makes it feel like real treasure and is a bonus above and beyond anything I would normally be able to obtain.

The potential of drawing an UR+ or two (regardless of the rarity) isn't going to alter my buying habits for next year and I suspect this is the case for most, if not all, of the "serious" True Dungeon players. All it really means is I may get an extra transmute I was not counting on that may be handy in the future or can be added to my collection. If I am lucky and the UR+ is on my list of tokens to obtain, then the resources I have allocated to buying/transmuting will simply shift to the next token on my buy/transmute list and will not affect the total resources I contribute to the TD economy.

For the sake of full disclosure, I obtained the following out of 105 pulls
- Monster Bits x 22
- Shirt of Blessed Strength
- Googles of Instant Analysis
- Blessed Redoubt Plate

Incognito wrote:

MasterED wrote: Always after Gen Con we see a flood of new powerful tokens and the market dips the hope is it will come back stronger than before and in most cases it does (except Wert's year - it still isn't recovered from a Greater Gloak of Destinhy and Girdle of Frost Giant Strength). Those high quantities have to fall out of the market.

IIRC, there were few (if any) Greater Cloaks in the Wertz box. It was mainly 2012 Relics along with Heroism items.

Also, there are some people who speculate that the number of Girdles, Rings, and Bracers were not equal. Some people theorize that Wertz (and this year) was used to dump extra Relics. More Girdles were transmuted and fewer Rings and Bracers were transmuted, so more Rings and Bracers were in the Wertz box and fewer Girdles. Similarly, some people believe that this year, there were not equal numbers of Batons, Plate, and Mail in the treasure boxes.

Mike Steele wrote: I actually think the Greater Cloak of Destiny and Girdle of Frost Giant Strength have recovered from the 2013 glut, I'm seeing some increased demand for those. On the other hand, it was the death blow for the +3 Mithral Bracers and Ring of Improved Evasion, those plummeted in value and have never recovered. Which is discouraging for someone that spent a lot of resources to transmute those, especially considering the increased power level and decreased transmute cost of Relics in following years.

I spent a lot of time and effort transmuting +3 Mithral Bracers and totally felt like a chump after Wertz. The experience led me to completely cut back on buying tokens every year (a state which persists to this day).

This may be our case this year. I transmuted an item Thursday morning (the last one we needed for our team) just to pull it later from the treasure. We no longer needed it and I am sure that items value has plummeted. But worse our team make up is 6 of us and 4 of another group. As of Saturday night we had pulled around 230 for us 6 and the other four had pulled around 190 pulls (we had saved up from WYC). Our 230 resulted in no high end relics nor URs, the other four at that time had pulled 2 High end relics and 7 URs. They were pulling either right after us or right before us. It kind of made us 6 kind of disgruntled. And after seeing what others had pulled that didn't help much either.

I mentioned to a few people how I will not be transmuting until after Gen Con because of the number of pulls we do. I already don't usually pick the current year's UR's so I don't double up with a random. Though the trading google doc can help out with that. It still would have sucked if I made the relic plate instead of the relic mail this year and then pull 2 plates. Fortunately I had made my mail first, so I don't need to make the plate now.

Forar wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: It's a big step up from the early days of True Dungeon, I clearly remember one year I only got one treasure pull and it was a 1 GP token.

I ran my first TD last year, and we did a Puzzle run with a bunch of new players and a few vets. One of the vets had a hefty token boost, but the majority of us had none. Due to a player's carelessness (foiling the lava puzzle) and issues with hearing things in the mushroom puzzle, I got... one token.

I had a blast, but after watching most of my group pull fairly low quality stuff, I just kept my '2015 Treasure Token' instead.

At least I'll always remember how I got that one, rather than 'Drow rations' or whatever it was my buddy pulled ahead of me.

I believe the rules have changed regarding token distribution, but it's funny to hear people assuming an 8 pull average and double digit peaks, when my first experience involved a single token.

And thanks to arranging a trade with Raven, I did manage to acquire Lenses of Fortune, so if we get to play again next year (my group is hoping to attend) at least I'll have that on hand.

Just the perspective of someone who definitely isn't a big roller with four or five figures in tokens to use. A simple reminder that if the community/player base is to grow, a lot of those will not own or be lucky enough to run with CoA (or other treasure enhancers) to spare.

Lot of people on the forums didnt care for the lenses of fortune. Again we formites are a skewed minority of the playerbase. I met some lvl 8 players who religiously track xp but have never touched the forums.

I agree and appreciate you pointing out how sometimes a rare can make a big difference in feel for a player. I've gotten decent stuff as I've saved and traded slowly up to get my treasure enhancers finally.

Good luck and hope you stick around.