TOPIC: Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions?

AAckeret wrote: An auction requiring me to divulge my name as a bidder would be 100% a no go for me.

It’s none of others freakin’ business that I have entered into commerce with another individual. My privacy outweighs third parties feeling the need to police others.

I agree that a personal information redacted post-auction spreadsheet could be helpful to the community, but it also is not a deal breaker to me participating in an auction either.

I understand the desire for privacy, but auctions are NOT a simple commerce transaction with a single individual; your bids directly impact the price that OTHERS pay. That is where the desire for full transparency with forum names comes from.
I don't know that it is necessary, but I also wouldn't have a problem with it.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

AAckeret wrote: An auction requiring me to divulge my name as a bidder would be 100% a no go for me.

It’s none of others freakin’ business that I have entered into commerce with another individual. My privacy outweighs third parties feeling the need to police others.

I agree that a personal information redacted post-auction spreadsheet could be helpful to the community, but it also is not a deal breaker to me participating in an auction either.

Auctions across the entire platform that affect dozens of bidders absolutely have a right to know who is actively participating. Private purchases are private, auctions, even on eBay are traditionally open information as to who the high bidder is.

There's no way for anyone on the forum to force your information to be revealed at auction end, but there's not going to stop being requests for visibility across the multiple auctions, especially when auctions run with undisclosed bids rolling over from auction to auction.

If your privacy is more important than the community's want of information take that into account when you participate in auctions. Verify your auction runner will keep your info anonymous.

eBay bidder ID information isn't really open to all to see. It's not that different from the anonymous bidder names used in forum auctions. It does give more info though on bid amounts and times. Here's an example from a TMNT Animation cel I was looking at:

-***q Feedback Score (188)
$56.00
5 Jul 2022 at 6:02:35am PDT
1***o Feedback Score (576)
$55.00
5 Jul 2022 at 12:41:12am PDT
-***q Feedback Score (188)
$55.00
5 Jul 2022 at 6:02:25am PDT
-***q Feedback Score (188)
$52.00
5 Jul 2022 at 6:02:20am PDT
-***q Feedback Score (188)
$46.00
5 Jul 2022 at 6:02:16am PDT
4***t Feedback Score (215)
$39.99
4 Jul 2022 at 5:18:13am PDT

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Auctions across the entire platform that affect dozens of bidders absolutely have a right to know who is actively participating. Private purchases are private, auctions, even on eBay are traditionally open information as to who the high bidder is.

Ebay redacts specific bidder information from the public. Some general information is shared, such as rating, and a limited history of recent bids in other auction categories. Examples attached from an auction I watched but did not bid in.

Knowing who is bidding while auction is occurring? No.

Posting what people bid after the fact? Probably not.

Posting who won after the fact? Possibly.

Auctions aren't in some vaccuum. If you know who is doing what to a recognizable level, can affect other transactions.

The worst case is knowing who is whom while auction is occurring as how you feel about people (or what they own) can warp results. Sure, when eBay stuff is up, there may be some talk with people you are closer to to refrain from competing, makes even more sense when "getting something for the group".

Posting people's bid strategies whether won or not may be interesting but, once people realize their strategies will become know, then can get into weird interactions as people try to game each other's strategies. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that I don't know precisely who is doing what. I will look at bid histories on eBay auctions to see where there are likely cases of shills or to get a picture of how much it's general interest in something versus two people bidding something up, and I might like to know which eBay bidders are shills or whatever, but I'm not going to want people to know my strategies for eBay bidding.

I think the back and forth indicates why it makes sense to have multiple people running auctions and not just one auction group using a single facilitator. I for one want something more open - others seem to prefer the secrecy of many of the current auctions. This diversity in buyers is fine, as the community can generally support more than one auction at a time.

Edit: I think the one caveat is that the forum post launching the auction needs to be upfront about all of the rules and processes - not just a hyperlink to another website - buyers deserve to know what they are getting into.

Ian Lee wrote: Knowing who is bidding while auction is occurring? No.

Posting what people bid after the fact? Probably not.

Posting who won after the fact? Possibly.

Auctions aren't in some vaccuum. If you know who is doing what to a recognizable level, can affect other transactions.

The worst case is knowing who is whom while auction is occurring as how you feel about people (or what they own) can warp results. Sure, when eBay stuff is up, there may be some talk with people you are closer to to refrain from competing, makes even more sense when "getting something for the group".

Posting people's bid strategies whether won or not may be interesting but, once people realize their strategies will become know, then can get into weird interactions as people try to game each other's strategies. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that I don't know precisely who is doing what. I will look at bid histories on eBay auctions to see where there are likely cases of shills or to get a picture of how much it's general interest in something versus two people bidding something up, and I might like to know which eBay bidders are shills or whatever, but I'm not going to want people to know my strategies for eBay bidding.

That is an interesting point. There are a few people who, if I knew they were the high bidder, I probably wouldn't bid against them.

As both a bidder and an 8K auction organizer I think the pseudonym system is best. As a bidder I have heard friends saying they are bidding on something so I chose to not bid against them. This hurts the auctions' chances of succeeding. As a seller I don't want bidders working together as this too would lead to lower bids and fewer successful auctions.

If you don't trust an auctioneer, why would you trust his list of transactions published post auction?

I don't see the list of transactions as likely to increase trust, but what I do see most likely happening with publishing bid history tied to forum names is criticism of the bidders. "Wow, look, Kirk is bidding up all the PYPs again! Hey, leave some for everyone else" and "Look at Endgame dropping a single bid on a single 1k gold bar and pushing up the price for the other 43 by $2 each", and so on.

Endgame wrote: If you don't trust an auctioneer, why would you trust his list of transactions published post auction?

If it is monikers I can self audit my own transactions and see how they impacted the auction - similar to ebay. If something looks weird the community can chime in to remove any confusion. Not having any information provides no checks and balances. Ideally I would like more than just bid history by monikers, but we shall see what is offered up in next year's auctions.

As Ronald Reagan said, "Trust, but verify."

Endgame wrote: If you don't trust an auctioneer, why would you trust his list of transactions published post auction?

I don't see the list of transactions as likely to increase trust, but what I do see most likely happening with publishing bid history tied to forum names is criticism of the bidders. "Wow, look, Kirk is bidding up all the PYPs again! Hey, leave some for everyone else" and "Look at Endgame dropping a single bid on a single 1k gold bar and pushing up the price for the other 43 by $2 each", and so on.

Endgame always messing it up for everyone else! Damn their information sharing and helpfulness while trying to kit out their party!

I probably shouldn't jump in here with all of the heated discussions, but I'll try to help and not stir up anything I have hosted my own auctions in the past and I can tell you it is a lot of work. There also is risk and I'm not sure how many people consider that. If I win $2,000 of tokens from an auction, and that package disappears, what happens? Who has the loss there? Or, as has happened to tdtavern.com, what if you mail a $1,000 package and USPS says it was delivered but the recipient says they didn't receive it? Do you believe them if they are a brand new customer? If they are a regular customer? In my opinion, the business/auctioneer is responsible for safely getting the tokens to the buyer. Again, that takes a lot of work and a bit of risk as well.

I have participated in quite a few auctions, in different formats, from many different people on the forums, over many years. My experience has generally been positive, except for sniping. If you have certain rules for an auction, then sniping is the best way to get the lowest price. But the forums can't handle sniping as we have found out from time to time. Also, I hate eBay more and more every year, so not only do I hate auctions that reward sniping, I tend to be skeptical of anything that copies what eBay does. So I'm less likely to engage in those types of auctions.

There are many types of people buying tokens through auctions. Resellers like me looking to pick up specific items that we need more of (in addition to buying entire $8ks which I also do). Players who need a few specific tokens. Players looking for bargains. And probably many more types. These different people likely have different expectations on formats, time commitment, etc. I think we need to keep that in mind as we argue discuss the topic -- the other person may have very different needs and expectations than you do.

Given my hatred of auctions that encourage sniping, I do like the auctions that reward early bidding, when combined with appropriate bid increments. That makes sniping less successful. The way that I, personally, prefer to do auctions is to "fire and forget". I want 100 Darkwood Planks, and I'm willing to pay up $2/ea for them. I'd like to submit that bid, and I'd love it if I am fairly certain that I'll get those tokens at, or below, that price. That's where the carry-forward system that Utaku provides can be useful. However, just as I hate sniping at the end of an auction, I can understand people disliking carry-over bids, because they are kind of like pre-sniping.

I do like the first idea that kurtreznor suggested here: truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=5&id=254969&start=72#430808

I had an idea that is similar. Perhaps, if Utaku is able and willing, is that he could have one meta thread that lists (publicly) standing bids for all auctions. You can see the standing bids, submit your own, etc. These bids are automatically applied to each auction as they start. Then the auction goes on like normal. At the end of the auction, if any of those pre-bids win, they are removed.

So, for example, in this "meta bid thread" you could have:

Mystic Silk
MonikerA 50 @ $4/ea
MonikerB 2000 @ $3.50/ea
MonikerC 200 @ $2/ea

So, if a new auction pops up with 300 Mystic Silk, there would be pre-bids from MonikerA for 50 @ $4, and from MonikerB for 250 @ $3.50. If they win, their bids on the meta thread are reduced. If they lose, their bids are applied to the next auction.

It's just an idea I had and I wanted to put it out there. I know that I'd probably enjoy using that system as it would be less work to manage my bids in the one meta thread.

PS - to be clear, I don't hate people who engage in sniping -- if the auction is set up in a way that rewards sniping, then I'd expect gamers to use the optimum strategy whenever possible.

PPS - I agree with other statements that have been made here. Jeff COULD control the use of the forums for token auctions, but he can't control our ability to buy and resell tokens. Well, he COULD control the resale of tokens, but he'd need to offer some sort of reseller discounts to encourage resellers to enter into contractual agreements. To my knowledge, this hasn't happened. Additionally, I don't like the idea of controlling or limiting the number or concurrency of auctions. As long as auctioneers are being honest and not screwing people over, more power to them (in my opinion).

Endgame wrote: If you don't trust an auctioneer, why would you trust his list of transactions published post auction?

I don't see the list of transactions as likely to increase trust, but what I do see most likely happening with publishing bid history tied to forum names is criticism of the bidders. "Wow, look, Kirk is bidding up all the PYPs again! Hey, leave some for everyone else" and "Look at Endgame dropping a single bid on a single 1k gold bar and pushing up the price for the other 43 by $2 each", and so on.

My 1 mystic silk didn’t even make it go up, someone else beat me to it! What is this shenanigans, …. And it was endgame! Oh, I need to congratulate when next we meet.