TOPIC: Going back to fewer auctions/non competing auctions?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: If everyone knows bid can be carried over, then everyone knows.


This really feels like a theoretical problem

It’s hard for me to take your posts at face value knowing that you are sponsoring one of Utaku’s auctions and are set to financial benefit.

Would you feel the same way if you were on the outside and had bid in multiple Utaku auctions not knowing it was a two tier system (as I have)?

If you're looking for credentials or other support, please ask your best friends.

That said,everyone should know all the rules.

Does it matter if you are overriding a prior bidder in a previous auction or the current one?

Don't cast aspersions at me.

Don’t get snippy with me. You self identified as having a financial interest in this thread. If I seem salty it is because I spent ~$1700 in Utaku’s auctions without knowing they were not standard lighting auctions (Utaku is free to look up the exact amount and post it if he likes).

I think I need to respond to the latest two items separately, as I am starting to be accused now of fixing auctions which I take extremely personally and feel horrible that someone felt that way (or that multiple people feel that way). I think the other is definitely a policy that I can understand the concern with and as mentioned before, I think very much having transparency is important out of the gate.

1.) Jamie: Completely understand how frustrating it can be to lose out at the last moment and in looking through my bid history, I have you down for bids on the first 4 preorder auctions that kicked off Nov. In 3 of the 4 auctions, you were outbid by multiple bidders, however considering how fast each of those went (I believe all less than 24 hours from launch to close), it definitely may have felt like a last minute bump, however in each of those it was multiple increments above your max. In terms of the one where you were outbid in the final surge (3rd from final bid), you had already been in a bidding war where you continued to top another bidder. I can also PM you the details of your bids to make sure they match your records.

2.) In terms of the bidding carryover policy, I can definitely understand concerns and whether or not it impacts a majority, a few, or no auctions at the end of the day, the key thing is wanting to be aware of the terms of auctions before choosing to participate. I think all of us who participate in auctions have had some point or another when you realize your assumption on how something worked wasn't what the bidder had in their system and it is a "feel bad" scenario that when tied to money is never a good thing. As I mentioned, I will be putting that policy in the policies for my auctions and I understand if you choose not to participate. In practice, it is as simple as a check to see if the bidder wants to repeat their bids with a question in the results message, in which the overwhelming majority of responses come in after the new auction has already begun. The community members have given me very positive feedback in that it improves their experience overall and that is my goal at the end of the day.

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: If everyone knows bid can be carried over, then everyone knows.


This really feels like a theoretical problem

It’s hard for me to take your posts at face value knowing that you are sponsoring one of Utaku’s auctions and are set to financial benefit.

Would you feel the same way if you were on the outside and had bid in multiple Utaku auctions not knowing it was a two tier system (as I have)?

If you're looking for credentials or other support, please ask your best friends.

That said,everyone should know all the rules.

Does it matter if you are overriding a prior bidder in a previous auction or the current one?

Don't cast aspersions at me.

Don’t get snippy with me. You self identified as having a financial interest in this thread. If I seem salty it is because I spent ~$1700 in Utaku’s auctions without knowing they were not standard lighting auctions (Utaku is free to look up the exact amount and post it if he likes).

I've obviously run auctions in the past, and utaku clearly identified me as his first sponsor.

Feel free to be as salty as you'd like.

If you bid in Utaku’s auctions and didn't win, you got a carry overPM.

Reasonable people can disagree about virtually anything with neither being wrong.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: If everyone knows bid can be carried over, then everyone knows.


This really feels like a theoretical problem

It’s hard for me to take your posts at face value knowing that you are sponsoring one of Utaku’s auctions and are set to financial benefit.

Would you feel the same way if you were on the outside and had bid in multiple Utaku auctions not knowing it was a two tier system (as I have)?

If you're looking for credentials or other support, please ask your best friends.

That said,everyone should know all the rules.

Does it matter if you are overriding a prior bidder in a previous auction or the current one?

Don't cast aspersions at me.

Don’t get snippy with me. You self identified as having a financial interest in this thread. If I seem salty it is because I spent ~$1700 in Utaku’s auctions without knowing they were not standard lighting auctions (Utaku is free to look up the exact amount and post it if he likes).

I've obviously run auctions in the past, and utaku clearly identified me as his first sponsor.

Feel free to be as salty as you'd like.

If you bid in Utaku’s auctions and didn't win, you got a carry overPM.

Reasonable people can disagree about virtually anything with neither being wrong.

Utaku seems to agree that folks should know beforehand about rollover bids and is adding a disclaimer. I would say this is a case where reasonable people are all on the same side.

Trying to defend the old system as fair is a losing argument which I would hope you would drop.

If you feel cheated by any system, new or old, I sincerely apologize.

Makng things better than before should be everyone's goal, I agree.

Matt Soto -

You have every right to run any auction you'd like to at any time you'd like to. If others have a problem with this then it's just too bad for them. It's that simple. There are no forum "rules" when it comes to auctions. People have their right to suggest an auction que system and you have every right to ignore it. If people don't like competition among auctioneers then they don't have to run an auction at the same time another is going on. At the end of the day the market will work itself out. For folks on here to say your causing trouble or ill will by doing what your doing is ridiculous. The only reason they'd say this is because they don't want any competition (probably because you've got better auction terms). And if your clear on your terms regarding carry over bids and people have an issue with it then oh well, they don't have to participate in your auctions.

I've never had a bad trade or auction experience with you and I will continue to bid on items in your auctions if it suites my preferences. Run whatever auction you'd like whenever you'd like to.

I've also had wonderful experiences with Matt's auctions. It's great having so many auctions, from so many people, to buy tokens from.

Jamie Campbell wrote: Depressed prices happen when it loses its FOMO and becomes a commodity. $80 PYPs anyone??

This statement entirely ignores 800 patron pins. Or is perhaps reflective of not following the prices or not understanding how lightning auctions work.

Quick edit to add that there shouldn’t be FOMO in coordinated group buys, which is really all these auctions are.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Beertram wrote: In Utaku’s auctions are only the losing bids allowed to be carried forward, or are the winning bidders allowed to continue having first chance at buying the tokens at that price? I don't really have an issue with the losing bids carry over hoping the prices drop, but if the winning bidders get to have monopoly on that price point without anyone else getting the chance to bid before them... that is a problem.

Except that the losing bidders then have a monopoly on that price point without anyone else getting the chance to bid before them. How is it a problem for one bidder but not another?

That might be true if the losing bids were the same as the winning bids, but placed after. But in that case they would at least be cycling that winning bid through different people.

At different times in the past 8 months there have been price-points for different items... $1.50 for DP or MS, $5 for DS, $50 for Ro5C, $80/$90/$95 for PYP's. At those times, that is what people wanted to get them for. They didn't want to go higher and set a new standard price-point. So if someone at that time wanted 24 of the $50 rings and were the highest bidder on all 8 at $50, letting the winning bids carry-over means they would probably get them in 3 consecutive auctions, and nobody else had that chance. If only the losing bids carried-over, then either the next person who was bidding $50 would get theirs and be done, or only lower bids would carry over and everyone could have a chance to place that $50 bid.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: If everyone knows bid can be carried over, then everyone knows.


This really feels like a theoretical problem

People in this thread have said it's lead to them no longer participating in auctions.

That's the definition of "not theoretical"

Anger like this leads people to not participating in auctions also, I can feel it in the words on the page. There could be several issues this thread should be addressing, and it may be ignoring one of them.

Well, i can think of a couple wildly different ways to run auctions that could satisfy people's complaints (and simultaneously probably upset them)...

Instead of back-to-back auctions, run it all as a single continuous auction. Whenever the top bids meet the funding amount, peel off those bids to place the order and continue the auction with the next bids in line as the top bid. Also make sure to allow bids below the current bid so that people can be added to the queue for when top bids peel off.

OR

Run auctions mostly like now, but allow bidders to simply MATCH the current top bid, and stop giving preference to early bidders. When the auction funds, randomize which top bidders win. This allows new bidders to have equal access to the current 'going rate' of auction items. And if you want to guarantee you win, you have to actually outbid everyone else, instead of just being lucky that you got your bid in first.

I want to see a no BS fully transparent auction with no semi-secret rollover bids, where at the end of the auction the tracking spreadsheet is shared with everyone that participated including the forum names of the bidders and when they bid. The current secrecy only helps the auction runner - no one else has a clear view of how prices are moving in the process.