TOPIC: Glut of Fleece due to VTD

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote:

Picc wrote:
I would also express that it is possible that some of those empty runs may have been removed from the site after a certain point to make things easier on the schedule/volunteers.

I had no idea this happened. I typically just filter the view to the number of "available" tickets I need and don't see if a time slot disappears. That is interesting...I'll try the other views on the next VTD. Thank you for the insight.

Out of 80 original runs on Sat and Sun only 63 ended up being offered. A lower number than earlier VTDs. Suspect 9b will even be less due to expenses with auctions and in person cons.

Didn't they say the next set of VTD won't have repeat Dungeons? That would solve the problem of low ticket sales on repeat VTD.

Don’t recall about VTD for 2023. Wait until folks start voicing not being able to get XP since only offered one weekend. Also glut of trade goods and saturation of market means treasure is viewed as less valuable and results in folks doing less runs.

Since completion tokens next year are same regardless of difficulty I plan to do just two of each run with one at normal (not as part of normal only run times) for fun and one at epic for fun and XP.

I plan on doing just one of each run at GENCON, just like the old days.

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote:

Picc wrote:
I would also express that it is possible that some of those empty runs may have been removed from the site after a certain point to make things easier on the schedule/volunteers.

I had no idea this happened. I typically just filter the view to the number of "available" tickets I need and don't see if a time slot disappears. That is interesting...I'll try the other views on the next VTD. Thank you for the insight.

Out of 80 original runs on Sat and Sun only 63 ended up being offered. A lower number than earlier VTDs. Suspect 9b will even be less due to expenses with auctions and in person cons.

Didn't they say the next set of VTD won't have repeat Dungeons? That would solve the problem of low ticket sales on repeat VTD.

Don’t recall about VTD for 2023. Wait until folks start voicing not being able to get XP since only offered one weekend. Also glut of trade goods and saturation of market means treasure is viewed as less valuable and results in folks doing less runs.

Since completion tokens next year are same regardless of difficulty I plan to do just two of each run with one at normal (not as part of normal only run times) for fun and one at epic for fun and XP.

I plan on doing just one of each run at GENCON, just like the old days.

There above are my VTD plans. At GenCon just two total runs with one of each I haven’t done before. Thursday am and Saturday am are my available times at GenCon.

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote:

Picc wrote:
I would also express that it is possible that some of those empty runs may have been removed from the site after a certain point to make things easier on the schedule/volunteers.

I had no idea this happened. I typically just filter the view to the number of "available" tickets I need and don't see if a time slot disappears. That is interesting...I'll try the other views on the next VTD. Thank you for the insight.

Out of 80 original runs on Sat and Sun only 63 ended up being offered. A lower number than earlier VTDs. Suspect 9b will even be less due to expenses with auctions and in person cons.

Didn't they say the next set of VTD won't have repeat Dungeons? That would solve the problem of low ticket sales on repeat VTD.

Don’t recall about VTD for 2023. Wait until folks start voicing not being able to get XP since only offered one weekend. Also glut of trade goods and saturation of market means treasure is viewed as less valuable and results in folks doing less runs.

Since completion tokens next year are same regardless of difficulty I plan to do just two of each run with one at normal (not as part of normal only run times) for fun and one at epic for fun and XP.

It is currently clearly stated in the upcoming events page that " There will be no "B-versions" of any Virtual Events in 2023, but we will present at least seven completely new VTD events in 2023." The quote can be found under the 2023 schedule

I'd prefer fewer VTD dungeons and have B versions than more without.

I would think that would greatly reduce production costs, too.

We used to have C versions. That was bad, but it seems overcorrective to not have B. There may be people avoiding B versions this year, but that should be due to more than there being two months of the same dungeon. Having a complete cycle, then come back to it later is weird.

For those that don't know, there are significant changes in A and B this year, even though I vastly preferred the pick your path of 2021, especially early 2021 when it was room by room.

Running "b" series of dungeons can be difficult to predict. They did much better when there was no option for in person dungeons. Here's some numbers for those who like to see that sort of thing.

V1a 1191 tickets sold
V1b 963 tickets sold (down 19%)
V2b 1210 tickets sold (2b was run prior to 2a)
V2a 974 tickets sold (down 20%)
V3a 1144 tickets sold
V3b 1171 tickets sold (up 2%, but I think everyone wanted the Belt of the Brave completion token)
V4a 1130 tickets sold
V4b 1155 tickets sold (up 2%, but again Bead of the Dire Bear was a popular completion token)
V5a 1099 tickets sold
V5b 900 tickets sold (down 18%)
V6a 869 tickets sold
V6b 756 tickets sold (down 13%)
V7a 1076 tickets sold
V7b 739 tickets sold (down 31%)
V8a 1074 tickets sold
V8b 669 tickets sold (down 38%)
V10a 1083 tickets sold
V10b 599 tickets sold (down 45%, but due to patron run was only held on 2 days)
V11a 1069 tickets sold
V11b TBD
V9a 1104 tickets sold
V9b TBD

Of course, there are many other factors that go into this that I didn't even mention, but it seems safe to say that there is generally a drop-off going from "a" runs to "b" runs. I didn't cover the "c" runs that were held for V4-V6, but those were a 4%-10% drop-off from their "b" runs.

I think there's also a difference between:
* A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B
vs
* A, A, A, A, A, B, B, B, B, B

The first pattern I found quite useful as my more casual group was able to pick between A vs B depending on which date was most convenient for a particular module. The 2nd pattern led to a lot more difficulty in scheduling. And once people missed a month, they were not always interested in continuing the story having missed part of it.

Fiddy wrote: I think there's also a difference between:
* A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B, A, B
vs
* A, A, A, A, A, B, B, B, B, B

The first pattern I found quite useful as my more casual group was able to pick between A vs B depending on which date was most convenient for a particular module. The 2nd pattern led to a lot more difficulty in scheduling. And once people missed a month, they were not always interested in continuing the story having missed part of it.

I 100% agree. A,B,A,B was much more schedule friendly, and I think it encouraged people to keep up with the story

Also, 2022 has had much more in person play, so having 10 weekends of VTD in 2022 is way too much.

If 2022 VTD had been planned as 7A, 7B, 8A, 8B, Skull, whatever, it wouldn't have been overwhelming.

As for 2021 dropoff, knowing that C versions existed had an impact as fatigue set in, and you could skip one month and just play in C instead. The data is what the data is, so I don't entirely dismiss its importance, but it's hard to draw clear conclusions.

As for story, I felt far more of an epic story in 2021 than in 2022. The travel on the map was a clear connector between dungeons.

Dave wrote: Running "b" series of dungeons can be difficult to predict. They did much better when there was no option for in person dungeons. Here's some numbers for those who like to see that sort of thing.

V1a 1191 tickets sold
V1b 963 tickets sold (down 19%)
V2b 1210 tickets sold (2b was run prior to 2a)
V2a 974 tickets sold (down 20%)
V3a 1144 tickets sold
V3b 1171 tickets sold (up 2%, but I think everyone wanted the Belt of the Brave completion token)
V4a 1130 tickets sold
V4b 1155 tickets sold (up 2%, but again Bead of the Dire Bear was a popular completion token)
V5a 1099 tickets sold
V5b 900 tickets sold (down 18%)
V6a 869 tickets sold
V6b 756 tickets sold (down 13%)
V7a 1076 tickets sold
V7b 739 tickets sold (down 31%)
V8a 1074 tickets sold
V8b 669 tickets sold (down 38%)
V10a 1083 tickets sold
V10b 599 tickets sold (down 45%, but due to patron run was only held on 2 days)
V11a 1069 tickets sold
V11b TBD
V9a 1104 tickets sold
V9b TBD

Of course, there are many other factors that go into this that I didn't even mention, but it seems safe to say that there is generally a drop-off going from "a" runs to "b" runs. I didn't cover the "c" runs that were held for V4-V6, but those were a 4%-10% drop-off from their "b" runs.

How are you calculating your percentages?

For me, the only reason I miss a VTD is because I have other stuff going on. It has nothing to do at all with the cost of GF. And during warmer months I'm out and about more so VTD for me is also somewhat seasonal.

John Ohlinger (John O) wrote: I would be in favor of being able to transmute/trade a GF for a 10x DS or a 10x MH or a 10x AI

Another option would be to be able to transmute/trade GF for GP--such as 6 GF for a 25K Bar.

Any of these options could have time limits (transmute window). This would alleviate the glut of fleece and promote more transmuting.

Just some thoughts . . .

My biggest hold up on transmutes seem to be GP.

Looking at the numbers, a 8k super condensed order nets 44k GPs……that’s one legendary transmute with 4k GP to spare plus a wish ring (worth 15k GP in theory).

Having said that maybe the slotless uber COV will take a lot of random MB?

Overall I like the idea for using MB or GF to transmute for other trade goods.

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

edwin wrote:

dokkaebi wrote:

Picc wrote:
I would also express that it is possible that some of those empty runs may have been removed from the site after a certain point to make things easier on the schedule/volunteers.

I had no idea this happened. I typically just filter the view to the number of "available" tickets I need and don't see if a time slot disappears. That is interesting...I'll try the other views on the next VTD. Thank you for the insight.

Out of 80 original runs on Sat and Sun only 63 ended up being offered. A lower number than earlier VTDs. Suspect 9b will even be less due to expenses with auctions and in person cons.

Didn't they say the next set of VTD won't have repeat Dungeons? That would solve the problem of low ticket sales on repeat VTD.

Don’t recall about VTD for 2023. Wait until folks start voicing not being able to get XP since only offered one weekend. Also glut of trade goods and saturation of market means treasure is viewed as less valuable and results in folks doing less runs.

Since completion tokens next year are same regardless of difficulty I plan to do just two of each run with one at normal (not as part of normal only run times) for fun and one at epic for fun and XP.

I plan on doing just one of each run at GENCON, just like the old days.

Does this mean at Gen-Con you can do all the VTD dungeons there ?

Mike Steele wrote: To me, the preferred answer wouldn't be ratcheting up the GF costs in things like Arcanum recipes but instead creating alternate transmutes that use monster bits/golden fleece. A storyline token would have been ideal. Allowing monster bits in the treasure map recipes, or something like that, would have been great also.

This.