TOPIC: Super Final Token Artwork...PLEASE PROOF

Ah, I dream of an AC of 23!<br /><br />Brian the Wizard<br />

<br />ya, these ac's are getting really high. its a good thing they havent taken into consideration touch attacks.<br />

<br /><br />Except for the Ioun Stone that gives you immunity to undead touch attacks. 

<br />Ah, I dream of an AC of 23!<br /><br />Brian the Wizard<br /><br />

<br /><br />Well one thing I really agree with in 2008 is the extra wizard protection tokens, so hopefully your defenses will shortly be looking a whole lot healthier!  =)

I dunno - might be the old-school D&Der in me - If we start seeing wizards with great AC I'm going have to write a letter.<br /><br />Isn't it bad enough we have had Bards and Druids in the #1 spot?<br /><br />Anyone done the math with the new tokens - who is on top now?

Well, I still think the wizards have the lowest AC of all the classes.<br /><br />Being an old school D&Der myself, the fact that the wizard can't stand at the back of the party and cast spells without danger of hand to hand combat (missiles and magic should still be a danger) unless the monster wants to take attacks of opportunity to chase the wizard down, chaffs me...and I don't even play a wizard. <br /><br />Since in TD the only protection for a wizard is the fairly useless covering rule that doesn't allow the wizard to attack, at least now the mage, with his crappy hit points, can feel like he has some staying power while putting himself in harms way thanks to the improved AC.

Only thing that keeps me from getting on that band wagon with ya Turnip is the fact that D&D combat can be a bit chaotic...being able to stay in the back is not always possible.  <br /><br />IF TD were to impose a real world physical "ACTUALITY" to combat and use a costumed NPC monster VS the party, would it then be possible to say that the physical proximity of players and the weapons they are using is even possible?  Some of the rooms in the dungeon do not seem friendly for Great Axes, Great Swords, let alone a Quarterstaff or longbow.  <br /><br />But of all the things I think we old-school D&Ders have cut slack on - it has been physical spacing and weapon use in close quarters.  How that compares to Wizards getting super dooper AC when that has always been their #1 weakness (right in front of HP)...well I dunno, I guess I always expect to heal the wizard and rogue on any adventure...

<br />I had decided not to comment on individual tokens at all this time around and I'm still not going to. I just figured I'd toss in a little explaination why. I'm not exactly sure my group and I are going to be in for buying any more tokens during next or subsequent years. The feeling seems to be that there's no functional purpose anymore. I mean, with this batch, AC is up to 30 plus and no one needs a 30 AC. Their take is we should just keep at the low to mid 20's or whatever we have at the moment and put the resources elsewhere. Since I might not be in, I don't exactly feel right possibly poopoo'ing someone else's party with the token whozits. Considering creep, another year of purchases would get us to 30  and completely invulnerable(spiffy), but the consensus for them seems to be that nigh invulnerable is more than good enough.<br />

<br /><br />Thanks for your honest opinion.  I really do appreciate it.  You make an interesting point.<br /><br />I would ask that you withhold judgment on the 2008 tokens until you have seen the new Nightmare! rules for 2008.  In case you did not see it, the HARDCORE option is being retired in 2008, and it is being replaced with a Nightmare! setting.  While the exact new rules are still being formed and tested, but it won't just be higher stats.  It became clear in 2007 that a whole new challenge was needed for avid token collectors.  I hope, with the good feedback from our great players, to form a set of rules to make that happen.

:ONightmare rules :O<br /><br />Jeff = awesome!!!  Can't wait to see what you come up with!<br />

So based on cloaks and robes and RoP, what is the best AC for the wizard?  Mage armor doesn't stack with the Cloak of the Mage, right?  What about the Robes of the Mage?<br />

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<br />I had decided not to comment on individual tokens at all this time around and I'm still not going to. I just figured I'd toss in a little explaination why. I'm not exactly sure my group and I are going to be in for buying any more tokens during next or subsequent years. The feeling seems to be that there's no functional purpose anymore. I mean, with this batch, AC is up to 30 plus and no one needs a 30 AC. Their take is we should just keep at the low to mid 20's or whatever we have at the moment and put the resources elsewhere. Since I might not be in, I don't exactly feel right possibly poopoo'ing someone else's party with the token whozits. Considering creep, another year of purchases would get us to 30  and completely invulnerable(spiffy), but the consensus for them seems to be that nigh invulnerable is more than good enough.<br />

<br /><br />Thanks for your honest opinion.  I really do appreciate it.  You make an interesting point.<br /><br />I would ask that you withhold judgment on the 2008 tokens until you have seen the new Nightmare! rules for 2008.  In case you did not see it, the HARDCORE option is being retired in 2008, and it is being replaced with a Nightmare! setting.  While the exact new rules are still being formed and tested, but it won't just be higher stats.  It became clear in 2007 that a whole new challenge was needed for avid token collectors.  I hope, with the good feedback from our great players, to form a set of rules to make that happen.<br />

<br /><br />It's not like any certain decision has been made, at least on my part. It was just the way the wind was blowing. I'd love to see what ideas you all come up with for added difficulty levels and God knows I've had a lot of fun collecting tokens. If nightmare works out, maybe we could even pass on our other idea of the dagger-only run, which was the personal fix for something challenging.<br /><br />I've noted before that it can't be a pleasant experience to find some way to scale the event for either normal or any hardcore/nightmare difficulty. It'd be bad enough just dealing with people who have played in past years (and thus have a store of tokens if nothing else from just playing the event) and those who are newbies and just get a bag to start with. I'm sure it only gets worse trying to find something that will encompase someone who buys a 10 pack every year up to smakloads. Well, okay, I don't think anyone expects anything that reasonably scales to smakloads. Really, most of us crazies on here are already in the extreme outliers. Anything that scales directly to us probably swamps 90% of other people who buy additional tokens.

<br />So based on cloaks and robes and RoP, what is the best AC for the wizard?  Mage armor doesn't stack with the Cloak of the Mage, right?  What about the Robes of the Mage?<br />

<br /><br />4 (isn't it 4?) for the cloak. 2 for the robe. 2 for the bracers. 1 for the amulet. 1 for the gloves. 1 for the ring. So 21 or so as it stands I think.

That's pretty good!  Of course, I don't have any of those besides the RoP +1, so with the Mage Armor, I will have a measly 15.  Not terrible.<br /><br />Saving my UR request for either the RoW or the AoW.<br />