TOPIC: Golden Tickets...your thoughts?

When I've talked with people about token incentives, the tricky part has been the wide distribution of the quantities bought.<br /><br />I have no idea what the real numbers are, but seems like it going to be something like:<br /><br />really big number of people buy $100 of tokens<br />20+ people buy $500 worth<br />10 people buy $1000<br />3 people buy $2000<br />2 people buy $3000<br />2 people buy $4000<br />2 people buy $5000<br />1 person buys a smakload<br /><br />So lets say there is something nifty at $2500, it cause 2 or 3 people to buy $500 more, but 2 people to buy $500 less. For anyone that moves up from a lower level of buying you may cause someone to move down from a higher.  I've never seen any clear way to work it out.<br /><br />We all want more candy but that doesn't mean we should really be given the candy...<br /><br />(With that said, I'm with gary that it would be nice if there was a price point that included a golden ticket again)

I don't think it's a good idea to introduce such overpowered items, even if they are "one-of-a-kinds".  And it hurts TD to come up with cool items that they will only make one of - that keeps them from being able to use it as a PYP or other incentive for everyone in a future year.  <br /><br />I don't think it's necessary either.  If the incentive were - for every $2500 spent, you got (for instance) a +2 Bracers of Defense, I think that would be motivation for people to try to reach that level.  Even though everyone would get the same thing, it is cool enough that people would still want it.  <br /><br />And really - we did something like that last year, just stealthy.  Last year there was an incentive that for every $3000 spent, you got a Ring of Wish.  If that had been advertised ahead of time, I do think it would have spurred more sales.  I know I would have spent the extra amount to get up to the level for a 2nd Ring of Wish.  So - I think Jeff should just continue what he did last year, but instead of keeping it a surprise, let people know the incentives and $ levels ahead of time, so they can try to spend the extra money to get that bonus item. 

<br />When I've talked with people about token incentives, the tricky part has been the wide distribution of the quantities bought.<br /><br />I have no idea what the real numbers are, but seems like it going to be something like:<br /><br />really big number of people buy $100 of tokens<br />20+ people buy $500 worth<br />10 people buy $1000<br />3 people buy $2000<br />2 people buy $3000<br />2 people buy $4000<br />2 people buy $5000<br />1 person buys a smakload<br /><br />So lets say there is something nifty at $2500, it cause 2 or 3 people to buy $500 more, but 2 people to buy $500 less. For anyone that moves up from a lower level of buying you may cause someone to move down from a higher.  I've never seen any clear way to work it out.<br /><br />We all want more candy but that doesn't mean we should really be given the candy...<br /><br />(With that said, I'm with gary that it would be nice if there was a price point that included a golden ticket again)<br />

<br /><br />I think we will need something next year, PYP and Gold Ticket will not be as effective next year.<br /><br />Mike's point is a good one though.  At the $2,500 level, there are not many folks (and even the folks here could either be very close or very far away from a multiple of the prize).  Perhaps something in the $750 range would be more helpful.  <br /><br />If only we could see the real data (my guess is there are less in the $1,000 and $500 catagory but I have no data to back up my guess, I will agree with Mike). 

<br />I don't think it's a good idea to introduce such overpowered items, even if they are "one-of-a-kinds".  And it hurts TD to come up with cool items that they will only make one of - that keeps them from being able to use it as a PYP or other incentive for everyone in a future year.  <br /><br />I don't think it's necessary either.  If the incentive were - for every $2500 spent, you got (for instance) a +2 Bracers of Defense, I think that would be motivation for people to try to reach that level.  Even though everyone would get the same thing, it is cool enough that people would still want it.  <br /><br />And really - we did something like that last year, just stealthy.  Last year there was an incentive that for every $3000 spent, you got a Ring of Wish.  If that had been advertised ahead of time, I do think it would have spurred more sales.  I know I would have spent the extra amount to get up to the level for a 2nd Ring of Wish.  So - I think Jeff should just continue what he did last year, but instead of keeping it a surprise, let people know the incentives and $ levels ahead of time, so they can try to spend the extra money to get that bonus item.  <br />

<br /><br />In my mind, the Artifacts would be on a different level than the URs so there wouldn't be any conflict.  And really, this group is nothing if not creative.  For the design-a-UR contest, we had some incredible ideas submitted.  I don't think we are even close to coming to the creative limit of URs or artifacts for that matter.<br /><br />Sure, if we had +2 Bracers of Defense for $2500 orders, that would motivate people but Artifacts would motivate people MUCH more I think.  Personally speaking, I wouldn't spend $2500 to get the Bracers but a one-of-a-kind Artifact?  I would seriously consider it for a one of a kind Druid Artifact.  The bling factor alone would be huge!<br /><br />The Ring of Wish was cool but it is consumable and everyone got the same thing.  I am guessing if you had a poll, the big spenders would spend even more if the incentive was an Artifact instead of +2 Bracers or a Ring of Wish.

I think the big spenders this year are much higher than you're thinking.  I think there are several spenders above the $5K level, and a lot more than 7 people at $3K or more.  I think it's pretty clear that the PYP program is doing a very nice job of spurring sales without some "unique artifact" tokens.  And, I'd rather TD put their efforts into more tokens that are available more widely than into single one-print-run tokens.  Instead of 10 one of a kind tokens, how about 10 more dungeon-only tokens?  Or maybe a 2nd tier of Ultra-Rares, that you could only pick at increments of $1K and that weren't part of the 00 bag promotion?  Maybe there would be 16-20 regular PYPs, and another 10 on top of that, that could only be obtained by as a PYP in increments of $1K for example (for every $1K, people would get to pick 3 regular PYP's, and one of the 2nd tier PYPs).  In that case someone would have to spend $10K to get all 10, and there would be a lot of incentive for people to get to that next $1K plateau so that they could order another of the special PYP's. 

<br />When I've talked with people about token incentives, the tricky part has been the wide distribution of the quantities bought.<br /><br />I have no idea what the real numbers are, but seems like it going to be something like:<br /><br />really big number of people buy $100 of tokens<br />20+ people buy $500 worth<br />10 people buy $1000<br />3 people buy $2000<br />2 people buy $3000<br />2 people buy $4000<br />2 people buy $5000<br />1 person buys a smakload<br />

<br /><br /><br />Remember, the forumites are only a small slice of the TD population.  I think the real numbers are probably even higher than this.<br /><br /><br />

<br />So lets say there is something nifty at $2500, it cause 2 or 3 people to buy $500 more, but 2 people to buy $500 less. For anyone that moves up from a lower level of buying you may cause someone to move down from a higher.  I've never seen any clear way to work it out.<br />

<br /><br />Not sure I understand why those two people in your example would buy $500 less.  There was a reason for buying $3000 in their mind (2 extra URs for example) and that reason isn't going away, right?  It would also motivate the two people at $4000 to possible go to $5000.<br /><br />

<br />We all want more candy but that doesn't mean we should really be given the candy...<br />

<br /><br />Right, we all want more candy but this would be candy for only the top 10 or so supporters of True Dungeon who already have practically every token ever printed.  I think its important to acknowledge their contribution to True Dungeon with something truly unique.  <br /> 

I always seem to play devil's advocate...<br /><br />Part of me wants to cry out:  what about acknowledging those with no money but simply a love of the event?  (I guess that's the Random Golden Ticket.)  Perhaps next year there could be Y # of RGTs and 2xY # of Random Silver Tickets.  Whatever works for Jeff and the event.,<br /><br />Part of me wants to get that Artifact or a set of +2 Bracers of Defense for spending $2500.    Yeah, I like that idea.    Yes. I, too, think it would be nice to have a purchasable GT run - a reward for higher levels of token purchasing.<br /><br />Time to daydream about TD and its hidden and not-so-hidden rewards.  (such as the smile on my face as I experience the dungeon or as I see the looks on the faces of its players)<br />

<br />I always seem to play devil's advocate...<br /><br />Part of me wants to cry out:  what about acknowledging those with no money but simply a love of the event?  (I guess that's the Random Golden Ticket.)  Perhaps next year there could be Y # of RGTs and 2xY # of Random Silver Tickets.  Whatever works for Jeff and the event.,<br /><br />Part of me wants to get that Artifact or a set of +2 Bracers of Defense for spending $2500.    Yeah, I like that idea.    Yes. I, too, think it would be nice to have a purchasable GT run - a reward for higher levels of token purchasing.<br /><br />Time to daydream about TD and its hidden and not-so-hidden rewards.  (such as the smile on my face as I experience the dungeon or as I see the looks on the faces of its players)<br /><br />

<br /><br />Of course if you want to go really hardcore on the "no money" angle, how about a random drawing for 1 or 2 GT from a list of everyone that has even played in a TD event.  1 entry per person. 

Well there are several grey areas...I mean VOLS who give time and sweat and all - get something cool for the effort.<br /><br />Come on - we are not forgetting ALL that Jeff does here...<br /><br />The Golden ticket USED to be something that ONLY was bought...I'm not sure if folks complained about that OR if the idea was spawn to make it like Willy Wonka...<br /><br />The thing is - well those of us who remember them as a reward for spend X - kinda miss them.<br /><br />We shall not go silently into the night - but we sure can be forgotten in time.

Nod.  *applauds* to all the great things Jeff (and team) does for the players and volunteers.

<br />

<br />So lets say there is something nifty at $2500, it cause 2 or 3 people to buy $500 more, but 2 people to buy $500 less. For anyone that moves up from a lower level of buying you may cause someone to move down from a higher.  I've never seen any clear way to work it out.<br />

<br /><br />Not sure I understand why those two people in your example would buy $500 less.  There was a reason for buying $3000 in their mind (2 extra URs for example) and that reason isn't going away, right?  It would also motivate the two people at $4000 to possible go to $5000.<br />

<br /><br />Sorry, I didn't explain that very well.<br /><br />This has to do with one of the buying models in my head.  <br /><br />When I'm looking at something with tiered pricing and trying to figure out how much I'll buy, I tend to lock onto the reward I want the most and then nearly ignore the other lesser rewards that (while they might be great) are not as cool as the main reward I'm looking at.  <br /><br />So (in the current model) the coolest thing is an UR (well it's really a GT but I don't know how to price that), which are bought in $250 units. I do the math in my head and realized I could affort (for the sake of this example) $3000 but I know there is no way I could scrape out $3250.<br /><br />So, based off of this model, I would buy $3000.<br /><br />If (in a different run of this virtual buying process where I had the same access to money) an even cooler perk then URs was offered, and its per unit price was $2500 then odds are my math would be:  I can afford $2500 but not $5000, so I'll buy $2500.<br /><br />Now there could be URs that I still had to have that would keep me at $3000 but I think there is a real risk that with this kind of buying logic (I.E. people like me) might end up buying less if a really cool perk happened to be priced at just a bit less then what I normally buy.<br /><br />

<br />

<br />We all want more candy but that doesn't mean we should really be given the candy...<br />

<br />Right, we all want more candy but this would be candy for only the top 10 or so supporters of True Dungeon who already have practically every token ever printed.  I think its important to acknowledge their contribution to True Dungeon with something truly unique.  <br />

<br /><br />BTW I like your idea of artifacts, I would love to get one.  In this case though I don't see easily how a price point could be picked to insure that TD would get some extra income from it (thought that's in part a problem of a lack of data on my part, the picture might be clearer for Jeff).

<br />Or maybe a 2nd tier of Ultra-Rares, that you could only pick at increments of $1K and that weren't part of the 00 bag promotion?  Maybe there would be 16-20 regular PYPs, and another 10 on top of that, that could only be obtained by as a PYP in increments of $1K for example (for every $1K, people would get to pick 3 regular PYP's, and one of the 2nd tier PYPs).  In that case someone would have to spend $10K to get all 10, and there would be a lot of incentive for people to get to that next $1K plateau so that they could order another of the special PYP's.  <br />

<br /><br />Actually, I love that idea.  And considering that you could get an extra super-special restricted access token at EVERY $1,000 spent, no one would really have any incentive to spend less.  And no matter what your price point, you'd always have some incentive to pay more, at least up to the point where you had all the extremely-Ultra-rare tokens. <br />