TOPIC: Re: How will token sales go in 2009?

to add to Gary's point, you could have a "wandering sales man" in the tavern, selling stuff from other towns. Or in this case, other years.

It's jusst robbing peter to pay paul.

<br />It's jusst robbing peter to pay paul.<br />

<br /><br />every time i see this phrase i think of the candy bar "mounds" and "almond joy".  =D

And impacts the rarity and collectability of prior year tokens,  especially if PYP is also retained.  <br /><br />Perhaps it would just be easiest for all for Jeff to print and sell the token individually and eliminate the collectability of it all.   <br />Each year he designs new products and prints a certain amount and when they are gone they are gone.  <br />Since the monetary cost to make a UR is the same as a Common, TD makes its major profits on the UR and Rares, a minor profit on Uncommons and breaks even on Commons.  <br />Sell them where it can show how many a particular token is left (which can accelerate sales when counts get low).  <br />This reduces waste (people only get the tokens they want), reduces postage cost (because you are only shipping the tokens people want), eliminates the secondary market (because the price is now fixed, unless someone wants to sell for less), stops all the excess trading (So only when a product is completely out would there be a need to do a trade), allows maxed out players (because they can tailor their purchases to exactly what their class needs), and simply take what doesn't sell by the time the convention runs around and uses that for treasure during the run.  <br /><br />Sure TD could make bags to give out at the event, but why bother.  <br />By not "giving" the bag of tokens he could perhaps reduce the cost of the TD event at GenCon.   <br />Instead setup a vendors booth, which would sell the individual tokens. Or if if the concept of random is still important, fill up 3 treasure boxes one with rares that are not selling or are from past year overstock, one with uncommons, and one with commons.  Charge $10 for a "bag pull" 1 from the rare, 2 from the uncommon, and 7 from the common, or price them individually $5 for the rares, $1 for the uncommon, and a quarter per common.  <br />But if you really want no waste, and past years tokens to be available for sale until the end of time, why bother with random at all -  Just create TD:Market.   Where the people can spend their money on exactly what they need with no need to worry about risk or randomness (we get plenty of that trying to get tickets to TD:GenCon anyway).  <br /><br />This approach also eliminates the need to even "version" the tokens, since once a token is introduced it will be available until supplies run out and should they be turned in for trade stock tokens then they will recirculate back into the market, and then as the trade stock tokens get used for combo tokens you can recirculate them as well.  <br /><br />It is like printing money for TD.<br /><br />Take for example this year's set, you print 500 cudgels and for the first 3 months, not that many are sold, you realize you printed too many as everyone wants the 10 foot pole instead.  <br /><br />So you can:<br /> 1) create something cool that requires dwarven steel, so people buy more common weapons to get more dwarven steel, which they then give you back the common weapons which you can circulate into making more dwarven steel.  So after selling 25 common weapons which cost x to make so a cost of 25x, you trade 1 trade token which cost also x to print.  You just made 24x (25x sold - x) then they send you the dwarven steel plus whatever other tokens were needed for the combo items and lets say the 1S combo items needs 2 dwarven steel and 4 other tokens, you now get those back and viola you sold 52x (25x+ 25x -1x -1x + 4x) for the end cost of 1x.  And in the end you are out 1 token for what could be 54 tokens because all the rest come back to you.  Of course they could just buy the dagger instead, still leaving you with an excess amount of cudgels.<br />Or 2) you could create something cool that requires the cudgel and people snatch them up like hotcakes, to which you will get them all back in combo item turn-in and viola you have stock for next year.<br /><br />Of course there will be shrinkage, people will not turn them in, use them for wall art, or fill swimming pools with them.   But at least the completist can have their entire collection mapped out financially and over time build that collection to completion. <br /><br />Of course, while this might be taken seriously, know that I can be a joker too :icon_jokercolor: so sayeth the heretic  :icon_joker: :whip2:<br />

i got a headache.  =(

<br />And impacts the rarity and collectability of prior year tokens,  especially if PYP is also retained.  <br /><br />Perhaps it would just be easiest for all for Jeff to print and sell the token individually and eliminate the collectability of it all.   <br />Each year he designs new products and prints a certain amount and when they are gone they are gone.  <br />Since the monetary cost to make a UR is the same as a Common, TD makes its major profits on the UR and Rares, a minor profit on Uncommons and breaks even on Commons.  <br />Sell them where it can show how many a particular token is left (which can accelerate sales when counts get low).  <br />This reduces waste (people only get the tokens they want), reduces postage cost (because you are only shipping the tokens people want), eliminates the secondary market (because the price is now fixed, unless someone wants to sell for less), stops all the excess trading (So only when a product is completely out would there be a need to do a trade), allows maxed out players (because they can tailor their purchases to exactly what their class needs), and simply take what doesn't sell by the time the convention runs around and uses that for treasure during the run.  <br /><br />Sure TD could make bags to give out at the event, but why bother.  <br />By not "giving" the bag of tokens he could perhaps reduce the cost of the TD event at GenCon.   <br />Instead setup a vendors booth, which would sell the individual tokens. Or if if the concept of random is still important, fill up 3 treasure boxes one with rares that are not selling or are from past year overstock, one with uncommons, and one with commons.  Charge $10 for a "bag pull" 1 from the rare, 2 from the uncommon, and 7 from the common, or price them individually $5 for the rares, $1 for the uncommon, and a quarter per common.  <br />But if you really want no waste, and past years tokens to be available for sale until the end of time, why bother with random at all -  Just create TD:Market.   Where the people can spend their money on exactly what they need with no need to worry about risk or randomness (we get plenty of that trying to get tickets to TD:GenCon anyway).  <br /><br />This approach also eliminates the need to even "version" the tokens, since once a token is introduced it will be available until supplies run out and should they be turned in for trade stock tokens then they will recirculate back into the market, and then as the trade stock tokens get used for combo tokens you can recirculate them as well.  <br /><br />It is like printing money for TD.<br /><br />Take for example this year's set, you print 500 cudgels and for the first 3 months, not that many are sold, you realize you printed too many as everyone wants the 10 foot pole instead.  <br /><br />So you can:<br /> 1) create something cool that requires dwarven steel, so people buy more common weapons to get more dwarven steel, which they then give you back the common weapons which you can circulate into making more dwarven steel.  So after selling 25 common weapons which cost x to make so a cost of 25x, you trade 1 trade token which cost also x to print.  You just made 24x (25x sold - x) then they send you the dwarven steel plus whatever other tokens were needed for the combo items and lets say the 1S combo items needs 2 dwarven steel and 4 other tokens, you now get those back and viola you sold 52x (25x+ 25x -1x -1x + 4x) for the end cost of 1x.  And in the end you are out 1 token for what could be 54 tokens because all the rest come back to you.  Of course they could just buy the dagger instead, still leaving you with an excess amount of cudgels.<br />Or 2) you could create something cool that requires the cudgel and people snatch them up like hotcakes, to which you will get them all back in combo item turn-in and viola you have stock for next year.<br /><br />Of course there will be shrinkage, people will not turn them in, use them for wall art, or fill swimming pools with them.   But at least the completist can have their entire collection mapped out financially and over time build that collection to completion. <br /><br />Of course, while this might be taken seriously, know that I can be a joker too :icon_jokercolor: so sayeth the heretic  :icon_joker: :whip2:<br /><br />

<br /><br />I bet there are a few people out there who have the means of snapping up all the Death's Door/cure potions on the second the tokens go on sale so they can resell them at a mark up.  This problem is not insurmountable mind you, just something to keep in mind.

The main deterrent to buying tokens for me at this point (other than saturation) is the weight of it all. My tokens are _still_ in chicago at the moment because of the whole having to ship them around. It's a pain for everyone involved. The alternative of carting it on planes just isn't working anymore. It's too heavy and even cases meant to handle it get beat up.

<br />The main deterrent to buying tokens for me at this point (other than saturation) is the weight of it all. My tokens are _still_ in chicago at the moment because of the whole having to ship them around. It's a pain for everyone involved. The alternative of carting it on planes just isn't working anymore. It's too heavy and even cases meant to handle it get beat up.<br />

<br /><br />Yeah - one trip carrying only a small fraction of my tokens was enough to convince me I no longer need to carry many tokens around! Even my metal poker chip case got some permanent damage from the weight of those things, and it wasn't even full, say nothing of my arm :-P They are not air-travel friendly!<br /><br />From here on, I'm only going to be carrying the exact tokens I plan to take with me in the dungeon, or know I need for a special purpose - about 100 or so. No trade-bait, give-away, or vanity tokens for me! That'll have to wait til TD is within driving distance.<br /><br />

So why do they have metal cores anyway?

stability.

<br />So why do they have metal cores anyway?<br />

<br /><br />To make them more "gold-like."  Actually have some meat to them.  If you can get your hands on a Clout token...I think those are the exact same thing, sans the metal inside.  You can get an idea of what the weight difference is.<br /><br />I'm pretty sure I voted for the metal inside back in the day...but I pretty much regret that now.  It took 1000 woods in a case in one hand vs 1000 chips in a case in the other to show me the error of my vote however, so...such is life.<br /><br />***If only this worked for presidential candidates!***

That was my point. It may have seemed like a good idea at the time to put some weight to the tokens, but now that people's collections have grown, they may be rethinking their opinions. I don't see the value in adding the weight, and the tokens are probably cheaper to produce without the cores (most likely iron, I'm sure).