TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Relic/Legend Event Idea

I'm not saying don't reward large token buyers. I am saying don't tie entry to a dungeon to something other than a ticket. If Jeff wants to charge $2000 a ticket, more power to him.

I consider myself a mid level buyer. I have bought at least $1000 for 4 years. I'm having a baby in January. So, because I might not buy at that level, I get punished. Even though I have supported at a high level for years. . .

As for the AG area, that should be the trader area nearest the entrance of the hall, or nearest the exit of the dungeons. I used the AG seating several times this year.

And, thanks, big token buyers. Without you, TD would not be what it is today.

If you are looking to get 60 people to go through the 'epic' level dungeon, take a look at how many AG badges you handed out for large purchases. More than 60? If so, I wouldn't suggest this as a reward at that level and tied to that year. If I was able to scrape together $2K for tokens (4 times my normal budget, lol) and I wasn't able to get in and the token expired, I might be a little sad.

On a side not, the option to upgrade the Transmuted tokens with a new recipe seemed like a start, as well as the turning it back in for the ingredients that were used to make it. I don't know how feasible either option is for TD.

I have only made two relics and traded one away and I don't feel bad that the market was 'flooded'. If I had made a pile of them, I might think differently.

darkangel866 wrote: I'm not saying don't reward large token buyers. I am saying don't tie entry to a dungeon to something other than a ticket. If Jeff wants to charge $2000 a ticket, more power to him.

I consider myself a mid level buyer. I have bought at least $1000 for 4 years. I'm having a baby in January. So, because I might not buy at that level, I get punished. Even though I have supported at a high level for years. . .

As for the AG area, that should be the trader area nearest the entrance of the hall, or nearest the exit of the dungeons. I used the AG seating several times this year.

And, thanks, big token buyers. Without you, TD would not be what it is today.

Don't we already reward big token buyers with Golden Ticket runs? You're saying don't reward them with a dungeon, but we already do that. While a GT run is the same dungeon that others run in most regards, in others, it is not, unless you got to mess with a Deck of Many Things on your normal run. While I understand that the GT runs aren't solely restricted to big buyers, you're much more likely to get one if you order $8k worth of tokens as opposed to $250. It functions to reward buying more tokens.

Now, there may be a problem with people perceiving this as elitist, and that's a valid concern, but that's perception, not reality, because the reality is that there is already a system in place which gives a special bonus to large token buyers.

Personally, I made my first $250 purchase this year, and that stretched my budget pretty thin. I play TD every year, I have no plans on ever ordering $2k in tokens, because I have three kids that need shoes and food and eventually, college. So, I think I fit pretty squarely into the demographic that you're concerned about. I have no issues at all with making a special dungeon for the large token buyers, as they are the engine that drives the ship that I get to ride on for four days every year. It should be something new players either understand or aspire to. Either way, every player you get to jump from buying $1k per year to buying $2k per year offsets a lot of upset people who go from 1 or 2 runs per year to 0.

Being a new player, I'm coming in with a different perspective, and a lot less experience and clout here, but reading through this, here are the points that struck home the most for me...

1) Golden tickets already have been created to help do something special, mostly for the large token buyers. Large token buyers also get more "value" with the bigger packages through the extra UR's added at each step. Between crafting, trading, and selling, there is a lot you can do with the large lots of tokens to make it worth your while if you were able to afford the initial investment.

2) The Adventurer Guild as is was a bit disappointing. Bag check was very popular, but the guild itself was underused, and really not that big of a deal as a perk. Either making the guild more worthwhile, or changing the perk is needed.

3) There seems to be a big divide between newer and older players. I was fortunate to get to run with the veterans, giving me a great experience, but I think a lot of other players trying to get into the game under less ideal circumstances is an issue. The even has a limited quantity, and it's hard to get in.

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If a four room dungeon were going to be added, I'm actually thinking that it might be of better use making an "intro to True Dungeon" adventure. I thought that was a great suggestion. Use all generics, take walkups, and make a 4 room dungeon reusing old puzzles and monsters from the past, with a short storyline. This allows lots of new players to get a true dungeon experience at a lower price point, hopefully bringing in even more players (and token buyers) in the future.

I'd also like to see the adventurer's guild become something worthwhile. Add games within the game for guild members. Put something of interest in the guild. Add a full time NPC or two in the guild maybe dropping or selling rumors for subquests and such.) This seems less resource intensive than designing a full special dungeon that will be limited to a few players, and it is visible to other players that "yes, I'd like to be part of this adventurers guild".

I think the best idea is to change the 2k reward level to include a special run. Yes keep the bag check as you indicate because that is good stuff.

If people feel compelled to run every experience TD has to offer then they will comeup with the money or find a way into the event just as they do for Golden Tickets and normal events.

A special run might encourage folks to bump up their orders to gain access to this. This would encourage more token buying and further reward large token buyers which is the point of this whole thing.


As for a way to make relics+ more useful. I would suggest keeping the original idea that this special run is planar removed and all non relic+ lose power to the point of not functioning. I know I would do everything I could to make sure I was outfitted in Relic+ for this run but ultimately it would be a hard run. Consider it a naked run, which many people choose to do.

Because this is a special run I would not expect to run my entire group of 10 friends through this. Also I would not expect to always have the finances to run this every year. People should not feel "punished" for not being able to afford something. I don't feel punished that I don't live in a Mansion, but good for those that do.


So in short, use this new reward level but add in the theme of the old idea. OR change the theme each year as you see fit to keep things interesting. Planar travel would just be 1 more environmental effect that says can't equip tokens that aren't Relic+ Just keep whatever you do in mind when you are balancing it out.

I am looking everything as a balance of resources. The resources needing balancing:

1) Square footage - Assuming 100% of the hall was used, every square foot of space added to one activity/event/scene must be taken from another. I see this as one of the biggest limiting resources unless the even grows enough to take over more hall space.

2) Time - Only so many runs can be done per hour. Setup and takedown time must also be considered.

3) $ - Every prop, token run, etc has an associated cost. Getting tickets and token sales to make money and pay for this is the ultimate goal. So every choice has to consider whether it increases costs, and does it increase sales.

4) Volunteers - Although there is an amazing number of volunteers for actors, builders, logistics, DM's, etc, it's still a limited resource, and anything requiring more help has the danger of not having enough volunteers to support it.

5) Players - Money and volunteers come from players. There will always be attritiion of players on some level, so a supply of new players is needed. If the barriers to entry are too high, it's harder to continue with growth. As the event continues to mature, in many ways the barrier to entry keeps going up.

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I point this out, because as I look at each idea and suggestion, I keep looking at what I feel the effects would be on these 5 resources. Does it take up hall space? If so, where do we get it from? Will it cost money? Will it cost time? How many volunteers are needed to support this change? Will it upset old players? WIll it bring in new players? Will it generate revenue?

Obviously low cost (in any of the 5 resources), high impact (gaining in any of the 5 resources) ideas are the best ones in many ways.

Im a few pages behind, but wanted to reply to some things; sorry if they have changed already.

Making the cubic thing consumable/each year: i dont like this idea, and im not sure it will accomplish what you want. We can probably assume $8k+ buyers are going to get this, and if that is all you want, then you just price everyone else out. But if you are hoping to get more players than that, i dont think it can be priced corectly; either the adventurers guild level buyers would have to spend too much of their yearly purchase that it keeps them from getting other relics, or it is cheap enough that a lot of $1k buyers will find a way to get them (resulting in a LOT more people than you want).
If you want to limit the number of players, i would rather see this be a legendary item.
Also, please be up front about what all the rewards are. Depending on how big/small you were wanting to go, i was thinking something simple like a set of the monster trophies.

Basic +3 weapon relics: please dont make crappy relics just to make this events restrictions viable. I would honestly rather go in to this without a weapon than spend the resources to make a basic +3 club (i dont know of any class that i would equip with it). I like the idea of allowing a single UR or less item, even if that is only temporary until there are more relic weapons.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote: My first question is what about those that equip a party of 10? I have currently 4 Girdles of Frost Giant. Would they all be soulforged to me? Do I choose whom they get soulforged to? Since I also buy all tickets for my group (often without any reimbursement) would I be able to buy these special slots for them?

I think the idea is awesome I just would like to know some more details.

Do you have to get a different Cubic Gate Relic for each year, or does the one Cubic Gate relic get you in the door each year? I can see pros and cons both ways.

Well...we could do it either way...maybe it would be best to make it so you need a new Cubic Gate every year. That would give us an exact count on how many people are eligible, and thus making planning much better.

Depending on the cost, I like the idea of getting a new Cubic Gate each year. That Cubic Gate token would be a nice memento of the event.

Unless you would have to turn it in....that would suck.

The first five pages of this thread are OBE. Maybe we should start a new one for the latest version of the mini-dungeon.

Jeff Martin wrote: Perhaps the easiest solution is just to re-define the $2K reward level, and remove the Adventurers' Guild area from the storyscape (but keep Bag Check). Replace the space instead with a mini-event only playable by AG members. It would be a 4-room retro event where you would keep one GM through the whole thing. Each AG member would get a special token they would have to turn in at the event start in order to play (like the Golden Ticket). These tokens would not be soulforged, so an $8K order would get 4 eligible admission tokens.

The event could be signed something like "Adventurers' Guild Challenge", and it could have a cool entrance that would be interesting to all passerbys.

Ticket times would be done on the Forum like the Golden Tickets and paid with generic tickets at the event.

(Snipped)

Jeff, I like this idea even better.
As a recently minted TD fan, I'd love to see the old "way cool" stuff I missed in prior years. And sad to say, the AG didn't really work for me or m bunch, we simply didnt have time post- run checkout to even sit down. I hope that runs smoother again in coming years.
I did use the bag check a bit, but in large measure I didn't get much out of the AG this year. I do like the storage, but Someone will doubtless make bank next year running a secured storage area to exploit the ICCs exceedingly poor decision to eliminate lockers .. May as well be TD

Kaledor wrote: I saw one or two groups in there sometimes. One group I walked in and they immediately got up and walked out, I asked why, they said they didn't have the AG Badge.

Make it a tavern, alcohol allowed, slightly better lighting, need the AG button to get in. I think this will increase the usage.

+1 to this idea, as well... Along with smoother checkout for the time to enjoy the area post-run... Or maybe your server does your checkout