TOPIC: Wand question(s)

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Boilerplate wrote:

Druegar wrote: Have people been using Medallion of Mystic Mouth to double-cast the same wand in a single round?

Absolutely. Every single run. (But not every round.) I primarily do this in two situations: (1) when I want to conserve spells but still do a little damage (especially useful in Grind), and (2) when I don’t want to blow the lid off combat with spells too soon. This is particularly useful in early rooms and when playing with newer, less equipped players - I don’t want to spoil their fun by doing too much spell damage too soon, and double blasting the same wand token serves as an easy way to keep the lid on my damage without sitting out a round (which can be offputting to new players who often don’t understand why you aren’t contributing). Way easier to moderate damage by double blasting a wand than trying to figure out how to dial back spell damage.

EDIT: it is also way FASTER to double blast a wand because the damage calculations are so much simpler for the DM than spells, so I have also used this approach when there is a real premium on doing damage quickly (even if the overall double wand damage may be less than spell damage).

This tactic was only okay for one round under the original “one use per room” rules, and only if you had multiple copies of said wand, because you were technically swapping them in and out.

But since MoMM puts the original (used) wand back in your hand, and it takes a free action to swap it for an unused one, you could only use two wands every other round, and only if you didn’t wand in the off-rounds.

If you only had one, not so much.

Yep, I understand those limitations for chargeless wands under the 2018 wand rules (but not sure DMs were universally or correctly enforcing). I think I was complying with the rules, though. I carry about 10 copies of Thor’s Fury and, as I mentioned, I do not double blast every round. Just occasionally in the situations noted above. And when I want to start off combat double blasting for consecutive rounds, I do so with the older charged wands since, under the 2018 and prior rules, you can keep a charged wand in your main hand and keep using it until it runs out of charges (therefore, no need to waste a free action picking up a fresh wand to use for the standard action).

Per a discussion with Jeff, the TDb has been updated to specify that Medallion of Mystic Mouth does not allow a specific wand to be double-cast in the same round. If you want to blast the same wand effect twice in a round with MoMM, you will need to use two wand tokens to do it.

Druegar wrote: Per a discussion with Jeff, the TDb has been updated to specify that Medallion of Mystic Mouth does not allow a specific wand to be double-cast in the same round. If you want to blast the same wand effect twice in a round with MoMM, you will need to use two wand tokens to do it.

Thanks for the clarification, Druegar. Presumably both wands get tossed into the bucket at the end of the room, right? If so, the double blast approach (wanding twice in a round with the standard and free action) probably isn’t worth it anymore, which is too bad because I think the approach has both tactical and meta game merit. With charged wands, I felt it was sometimes worth spending a charge. With chargeless wands under 2018 rules, it certainly made sense. But with the new rule it probably isn’t worth the cost of losing two wands, especially since one of the wands (the one used with the standard action) would probably only get a single use in a room. Pretty steep consumable cost for a single use.

EDIT: to be clear, I’m not objecting to the need to present two wand tokens and follow the swap in/out mechanics. I’m just objecting to the conclusion that both tokens get tossed into the bucket at the end of the room.

Druegar wrote: Per a discussion with Jeff, the TDb has been updated to specify that Medallion of Mystic Mouth does not allow a specific wand to be double-cast in the same round. If you want to blast the same wand effect twice in a round with MoMM, you will need to use two wand tokens to do it.

Which I understood to be the case currently.

With the wand changes coming at Origins 2019, I was under the impression that there would be a slight revision to MoMM in that if one wished, they could use one wand for both their standard and free actions, and only turn in 1 wand per room.

If one wanted to use 2 different wands, for different damage types as one possible reason, then one would have to turn in 2 wands in that room.

I think this was agreed upon by TPTB, but either I am mistaken, or there has been a revision.

Either way, right now 2 wands are needed, but are only turned in if they are out of charges.

Once Origins 2019 arrives, what is the plan?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Druegar wrote: Per a discussion with Jeff, the TDb has been updated to specify that Medallion of Mystic Mouth does not allow a specific wand to be double-cast in the same round. If you want to blast the same wand effect twice in a round with MoMM, you will need to use two wand tokens to do it.

Which I understood to be the case currently.

With the wand changes coming at Origins 2019, I was under the impression that there would be a slight revision to MoMM in that if one wished, they could use one wand for both their standard and free actions, and only turn in 1 wand per room.

If one wanted to use 2 different wands, for different damage types as one possible reason, then one would have to turn in 2 wands in that room.

I think this was agreed upon by TPTB, but either I am mistaken, or there has been a revision.

Either way, right now 2 wands are needed, but are only turned in if they are out of charges.

Once Origins 2019 arrives, what is the plan?

This was my understanding too, Wade.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Druegar wrote: Per a discussion with Jeff, the TDb has been updated to specify that Medallion of Mystic Mouth does not allow a specific wand to be double-cast in the same round. If you want to blast the same wand effect twice in a round with MoMM, you will need to use two wand tokens to do it.

Which I understood to be the case currently.

With the wand changes coming at Origins 2019, I was under the impression that there would be a slight revision to MoMM in that if one wished, they could use one wand for both their standard and free actions, and only turn in 1 wand per room.

If one wanted to use 2 different wands, for different damage types as one possible reason, then one would have to turn in 2 wands in that room.

I think this was agreed upon by TPTB, but either I am mistaken, or there has been a revision.

Either way, right now 2 wands are needed, but are only turned in if they are out of charges.

Once Origins 2019 arrives, what is the plan?

The way I read it, you need two Wands if you are going to use a Wand on your regular action and one on your free action via MoMM (even if both Wands are identical), both Wands have unlimited charges in the room, and both get turned in at the end of the combat.

Lest anyone thing I have no sympathy for wizards: I just wanted to mention the only chippie wand that clerics had until last year (Wand of Illumination) was already situational, and is now prohibitively expensive to use. Just one more way Clerics got hosed this year, albeit a minor one.

The Lens nerf was a stealth nerf to MEC Wizards as well. So it wasn't just Clerics that got shit on this year.

Don't forget Druids, we got it from multiple fronts as well! The only class negatively impacted more than Druids was Clerics, I think.

Mike Steele wrote: Don't forget Druids, we got it from multiple fronts as well! The only class negatively impacted more than Druids was Clerics, I think.

I didn’t forget. It’s hard to feel sorry for Druids when they got their class relic/legendary.

isauteikisa wrote: The Lens nerf was a stealth nerf to MEC Wizards as well. So it wasn't just Clerics that got shit on this year.

Is there any sarcasm here?

MoMM wizards certainly got an unfavorable ruling, but MEC Wizards got to maintain a +15hp kilt that now adds to Eldritch bonus.

Rob F wrote:

macXdmg wrote: Yes, how does Medallion of Mystic Mouth(MoMM) treat wands that are used with spells or scrolls? Does the MoMM make wands essentially unlimited? I could keep exactly one of every wand and feel rewarded for not making the mage legendary neck piece or spending any wands, and my character card would still see use. I like this a lot actually, please be so.

I don't recall seeing anything specific about a Legendary neck piece for wizards. I think Jeff mentioned the Barbarian, Monk and one other class but still left it a bit open for the others. I would have to find the post though.

Rob - here is the quote from Jeff in the first post of the 2019 “FINAL Notes” thread about the neckslot being used for all class specific legendaries except Bard and Paladin:

SPECIAL NOTE about Relics and Legendaries

Now that every class has at least a few generic legendary tokens, starting in 2019 we will be producing class specific ones. Every Relic and Legendary class specific token, barring some thematic exceptions will occupy the neck slot so as not to interfere with any previous Eldritch items. The two classes that will not be in the neck slot are the Bard and Paladin. This puts all the classes on a roughly even slot impact basis. I hope you like the new 2019 legendaries for the Bard, Druid, & Rogue! Next year we plan on Neck slot items for the Barbarian, Monk and Ranger -- while the +2 Holy Avenger (from 2019) can be transmuted up to a +5 Holy Avenger! We wanted to add the +2 Holy Avenger in this year -- since Paladins will be venturing into the Infernal Pit!