TOPIC: Official Statement on Treasure Enhancers

GaryM wrote: I see fanny packs making a comeback!

You mean they went out of style? Is that why all the kids mock me?

(Yes, I am leaving myself open there)

I am just going to have my players put them in the token wallets with their other tokens. Maybe I will bring a roll of tape so the can be taped closed till the epi room.

Haven't lost a token out of them yet. We have lost a few weapons, but if the magnetic sliders make it into the dungeon then I am less worried about that.

It will be an inconvenience to move them from their long term storage to the wallets back to the lt storage, but if Jeff feels this will stop nefarious actions of some I am willing to do it.

I am still surprised that IF something happened at TDC we (or Jeff) doesn't know who it was. There weren't that many of us and most of us know each other. Additionally someone else mentioned that if someone did see something nefarious I hope it was reported to an AC or Jeff immediately so it could have been dealt with. I hope we would all do that going forward.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Disbeeleaf wrote: You are right that it is about stopping people from taking advantage, but there are much better ways to do that than what has been suggested with respect to removing tokens from secure storage during a dungeon run. Our group has many valuable tokens in our possession and removing them from the security of token books is a counterproductive and risky idea.

Mike Steele wrote:

Beertram wrote:

Rob F wrote: I can sympathize with this statement. I bet if Jeff sold a TD ticket that allowed people to bypass the Dungeon and go straight to the treasure boxes with all your TE's a lot of them would sell. At least it would curb the ghosters and people running just for treasure pulls from purchasing tickets that can be used by others who actually want to play for the experience. I've done runs at Gen Con and seen people who have already went through the dungeons a few times just sitting in the rooms and either not participating or just chatting with others who have already been on runs. Where's the fun in that? Not to mention it dilutes the experience for the others who are on the run.

That's an interesting proposal, Rob. TD could put treasure pulls for sale on the website for whatever the going rate it ($3-$4.50 each?) to be collected at GenCon. Jeff might have to invest in a larger cement mixer, but I imagine it would be profitable for TD and lessen the desire for ghosting for some. However, this should never happen as it would make treasure pulls more about commerce and less about the dungeon.

Something like that has been proposed several times over the last couple of years. It does have the downside of making things totally about commerce instead of the Dungeon, and also runs the risk of tons of treasure tokens being sold this way (if there was a profit to be made, I wouldn't be surprised at all if someone(s) showed up with $10K or more to buy the token pulls with). That could cause them to run out of tokens for Dungeon pulls, and also might flood the market with tokens from the treasure box mix so that Jeff would have to significantly dilute the treasure mix.

Well as I stated, I don't think this should happen. But if I also stated these would only be sold on the TD website to be collected at GenCon, so I think Jeff would know exactly how many extra treasure tokens to take (assuming he stopped sales during GenCon).

Again, I don't think this should ever happen. But I don't see how this would create a need for the treasure mix to be diluted any more than adding runs at other conventions would. The need to dilute would come from abuse of TE's and TD having to hand out a geometric increase in treasure tokens without any increase in revenue.

In case I didn't state it earlier, I do not think TD should sell treasure pulls. I for one would not purchase any.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: You could just say they aren't PYP-able, and only come randomly in packs

I think that would defeat the main reason Jeff continues to print new UR TE tokens, in that they bring in a lot of revenue True Dungeon needs.

Not after this "no sharing" rule

I'll definitely be rethinking my normal purchase of 10x every TE that is released if I'm expected to hand off the TE tokens to everyone that I run with.

I outfit a group of 10 every GenCon. It is almost always all friends, but sometimes it is randoms. I wouldn't want to let my friends carry around the ~36 (10x RoR, 10x CoGF, 10x IS:SN, 2x HoP, and 8x AoTF) tokens through the whole dungeon, much less randoms (who keep the treasure that my tokens give them, mostly so that we can all benefit from the synergy tokens).

I imagine that if this is truly enforced that I'd be quickly unloading my TEs instead of risking them being lost or stolen because I'm forced to let someone else handle them through the dungeon (note: I've got no problem letting the coach/epilogue crew handling them to make sure they aren't fakes).

For those of us who use the Dansco binders, can we do this:

1) Remove our TE tokens from the binder and show them to the coach.
2) Put them back in the binder
3) Carry binder through the dungeon
4. Remove TE tokens from binder and show them to the epilouge volunteer.

Possible step 2.5) Put binder in backpack.

.

Harlax wrote: For those of us who use the Dansco binders, can we do this:

1) Remove our TE tokens from the binder and show them to the coach.
2) Put them back in the binder
3) Carry binder through the dungeon
4. Remove TE tokens from binder and show them to the epilouge volunteer.

Possible step 2.5) Put binder in backpack.

.

Unless you're outfitting the party - in that case, 90% of them don't go back into the binder until after the Epilogue room.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: For those of us who use the Dansco binders, can we do this:

1) Remove our TE tokens from the binder and show them to the coach.
2) Put them back in the binder
3) Carry binder through the dungeon
4. Remove TE tokens from binder and show them to the epilouge volunteer.

Possible step 2.5) Put binder in backpack.

.

Unless you're outfitting the party - in that case, 90% of them don't go back into the binder until after the Epilogue room.

I have a binder, my son has a binder. The other 7 are in the token sheets I get from Kirk. I'll have to figure those 7 out, but thats only for the one run we do together. And those are only AoTF and one CoGF. I don't have the same dilemma as some others.

I hadn't even realized counterfeit TE Tokens was an issue. I wonder if True Dungeon positively identified some. I hope anyone that counterfeits them (or any tokens) gets caught and punished.

I want to get some clarification on something as I think people are reading this wrong:

Jeff Martin wrote: 3) When shown in the coaching room and epilogue room, all TEs must be removed from their binders/cases/pages/holders so TD personnel can inspect them through visual and tactile means. This should reduce fraud concerns and help to keep the value of the real TEs at their proper levels.

4) Each individual utilizing a TE must carry it through the adventure and then present it to the attendant in the epilogue room. If our old buddy Monty normally carries his TEs in a binder, they must be removed from the binder in/before coaching and may not be put back into the binder until each token has been re-verified in the epilogue room. We're aware some people may be uncomfortable relinquishing physical control of expensive tokens for an entire adventure, but we feel these procedures are necessary to combat the abuse of inappropriate token lending. We are fine with players lending TEs to friends, but we want to discourage their casual distribution to strangers.

The first line of #3 implies the tokens CAN be stored in INDIVIDUAL binders during the dungeon, they just need to be kept on the individual to which they apply for the adventure.

In the example in #4, I originally read it as: 'If... Monty normally carries his [team's] TEs in a [single] binder, they must be removed from the [communal] binder in/before coaching and may not be put back into the [communal] binder...'

We need some clarification on this, as some people are reading it one way and some another.

Kim Lindgren wrote:

Incognito wrote: Another thing is that you are going to *really* need to have trustworthy volunteers handling exit room.

All it takes is one unscrupulous volunteer with some sleight of hand skills, to steal real treasure enhancers and give people fakes in return.

IIRC, in the past, some positions, including epilogue room were sometimes seen as "easier" jobs ideal for less experienced volunteers (or those who need to sit down).

If we do not fully trust the epilogue volunteer, can we request that an AC come down and handle/verify our treasure enhancers instead?

Excuse me, please tell me that you're kidding with this statement. First, epilogue is not "easier". There's actually a certain amount of stress in epilogue. Second, you have to have excellent customer service skills to be in epilogue as you're the first person to see people when they come out of the dungeon and therefore are the first person to address any problems that the party had.

Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with the implications of this, too.

What if I don't trust a certain DM in a combat room, and I'm worried he might sleight-of-hand my +5 Ashers Viper Strike token right outta the puck? (especially with the way some DMs have been known to pick up the pucks while returning them to the party, or slide them back so vigorously that occasionally tokens end up on the floor?*)

What if I'm uncomfortable with a DM in the puzzle room asking to see my Ektdar's Tinkering tool? After all, puzzle DMing is considered an "easy" job, and a "sit down" job, and they might put less qualified DMs in that position?

Really, what I'm trying to say is: "Profiling" volunteers just makes my skin crawl.
Maybe, if you've had a bad experience with a *specific* volunteer, you would have a reason for wanting an AC on hand. But if TD puts someone into a trusted position, you should accept that person is there because they want the players to have a good experience, and aren't out to fleece the player base. You don't get to decide that certain volunteers aren't worthy of being trusted, or that they're only in their position because it's menial enough for them.

Maybe that's not what you meant... but it still comes across in a very unsettling way.


* I say this as a DM who has picked up player pucks and/or sometimes over-slid them so they fell onto the floor. It happens.

Kim Lindgren wrote:

Incognito wrote: Another thing is that you are going to *really* need to have trustworthy volunteers handling exit room.

All it takes is one unscrupulous volunteer with some sleight of hand skills, to steal real treasure enhancers and give people fakes in return.

IIRC, in the past, some positions, including epilogue room were sometimes seen as "easier" jobs ideal for less experienced volunteers (or those who need to sit down).

If we do not fully trust the epilogue volunteer, can we request that an AC come down and handle/verify our treasure enhancers instead?

Excuse me, please tell me that you're kidding with this statement. First, epilogue is not "easier". There's actually a certain amount of stress in epilogue. Second, you have to have excellent customer service skills to be in epilogue as you're the first person to see people when they come out of the dungeon and therefore are the first person to address any problems that the party had.

If you've ever heard a group "battle cry" coming from the epilogue room, it was Kim pumping up new players!

I love volunteering there because we get about 72 seconds per player to do all the mentioned items and:

Recruit new volunteers
Handle the occasional dissatisfied player
Answer tons of token questions
Explain the benefits of XP and TD.com
Push the next TD event (gencon, gameholecon etc)
Talk about transmuting
Try to stay cool when a celebrity, author or game designer rolls through the dungeon
Send new players that pull Trade Items, GP or Monster bits out to the token traders (you're welcome )

I will add that it was a combination of Jeff's volunteer video and a goober on the XP desk years ago that made me volunteer for the first time.

Epilogue room is fast-paced and a great opportunity to interact with players from all backgrounds.

Come join our team!

truedungeon.com/volunteer