TOPIC: Official Statement on Treasure Enhancers

Raven wrote:

Kim Lindgren wrote:

Incognito wrote: Another thing is that you are going to *really* need to have trustworthy volunteers handling exit room.

All it takes is one unscrupulous volunteer with some sleight of hand skills, to steal real treasure enhancers and give people fakes in return.

IIRC, in the past, some positions, including epilogue room were sometimes seen as "easier" jobs ideal for less experienced volunteers (or those who need to sit down).

If we do not fully trust the epilogue volunteer, can we request that an AC come down and handle/verify our treasure enhancers instead?

Excuse me, please tell me that you're kidding with this statement. First, epilogue is not "easier". There's actually a certain amount of stress in epilogue. Second, you have to have excellent customer service skills to be in epilogue as you're the first person to see people when they come out of the dungeon and therefore are the first person to address any problems that the party had.

Yeah, I'm uncomfortable with the implications of this, too.

What if I don't trust a certain DM in a combat room, and I'm worried he might sleight-of-hand my +5 Ashers Viper Strike token right outta the puck? (especially with the way some DMs have been known to pick up the pucks while returning them to the party, or slide them back so vigorously that occasionally tokens end up on the floor?*)

What if I'm uncomfortable with a DM in the puzzle room asking to see my Ektdar's Tinkering tool? After all, puzzle DMing is considered an "easy" job, and a "sit down" job, and they might put less qualified DMs in that position?

Really, what I'm trying to say is: "Profiling" volunteers just makes my skin crawl.
Maybe, if you've had a bad experience with a *specific* volunteer, you would have a reason for wanting an AC on hand. But if TD puts someone into a trusted position, you should accept that person is there because they want the players to have a good experience, and aren't out to fleece the player base. You don't get to decide that certain volunteers aren't worthy of being trusted, or that they're only in their position because it's menial enough for them.

Maybe that's not what you meant... but it still comes across in a very unsettling way.

* I say this as a DM who has picked up player pucks and/or sometimes over-slid them so they fell onto the floor. It happens.

Apologies for any offense caused (especially to Kim and Raven).

First off, there's a big difference between the perception that something is "easier" versus it actually being easier. There are many cases when the perception does not match up to the reality, but nonetheless, it is useful to be aware that there is such a perception (even if it is not true).

For an example, at rowing regattas there is a perception that land positions (such as control commission) are easier jobs. Now those positions can be really hard and stressful (sometimes moreso than water positions), but that's the general perception.

In addition, those positions (which are more likely to have sitting opportunities) are also often given to older referees or those with physical restrictions.

Sorry, but just about any sitting position role is going to be physically easier than standing around on concrete for 7 hours. (Unless you specifically have a physical ailment where sitting is hard).

And there are positions which require more skills (or more specialized skills) than others. Every year, True Dungeon does get random volunteers (who have no experience or knowledge of TD) and they have to put them somewhere and they tend to be put in "easier" roles.

Several years ago, when TD was still at the Marriott, I ran into a high-school/college age guy who wanted to volunteer. He was a Yu-Gi-Oh player and wanted a free convention badge for volunteering. He had absolutely no idea what TD was so in such a scenario, it would make sense to put him in an "easier" position.

As it turns out, TD staffed him with treasure draws (this was back when it was in the Marriott hallway). It was "easy" in that all he needed to do was collect treasure coins and let people draw them out of the box. Of course, since he had no connection to TD, he didn't really have anything at stake so it probably wasn't a good decision on the "trust" side. The guy wasn't really diligent about maintaining the integrity of the treasure pull process. Sometimes he would even help people try to draw good stuff.

If a player or a volunteer is uncomfortable in a situation (including a matter of "trusting" the other party with money or tokens), they should be able to refer the matter up to the next level of authority (likely an AC). If a volunteer or a player asks you to do *anything* that you are uncomfortable with, you should *not* simply defer to authority and do it. You should be able to take this up to the next level.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: For those of us who use the Dansco binders, can we do this:

1) Remove our TE tokens from the binder and show them to the coach.
2) Put them back in the binder
3) Carry binder through the dungeon
4. Remove TE tokens from binder and show them to the epilouge volunteer.

Possible step 2.5) Put binder in backpack.

.

Unless you're outfitting the party - in that case, 90% of them don't go back into the binder until after the Epilogue room.

right. it's my understanding that those of us who outfit entire groups would only get to hold onto those TE tokens that our character is currently equipping (and obviously those could be put back into the dansco binder, but only those). all the rest have to be carried by the player whose character is equipping that particular token.

If you cannot trust the volunteer in order to hand them the token to confirm it's legitimacy then there are much larger problems for all parties concerned. I mean are we getting to the point that we place such a financial value on tokens that a regular volunteer will no longer be able to man the treasure box because of trust issues between players and volunteers?

Kim Lindgren wrote: If you cannot trust the volunteer in order to hand them the token to confirm it's legitimacy then there are much larger problems for all parties concerned. I mean are we getting to the point that we place such a financial value on tokens that a regular volunteer will no longer be able to man the treasure box because of trust issues between players and volunteers?

Unfortunately, it looks like we are headed in that direction.

We have multiple players who are concerned about simply removing their treasure enhancers from their binders or sleeves.

We have multiple players who are concerned about having someone else (even someone they know or one of their friends) carrying the treasure enhancers throughout the dungeon.

Mike Steele wrote: I hadn't even realized counterfeit TE Tokens was an issue. I wonder if True Dungeon positively identified some. I hope anyone that counterfeits them (or any tokens) gets caught and punished.

I've been following these insane threads since TDC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't counterfeit Tokens. The term "counterfeit" came up in a post describing CoA's being used simultaneously in multiple Runs at the same time.

First, if it's truly come to this it makes me incredibly sad. Second, I'm not sure how this makes me feel about having anything to do with overseeing a treasure box. Maybe we should remove the treasure boxes from the Epilogue Room entirely and create a treasure draw area by Admin where we can have a few volunteers man the treasure boxes with an AC parked right behind them at all times in order to make sure that no token shenanigans are taking place either on the volunteer's part or the player's part. I'm not trying to be sarcastic but that sounds like where we're at.

Incognito wrote:

Kim Lindgren wrote: If you cannot trust the volunteer in order to hand them the token to confirm it's legitimacy then there are much larger problems for all parties concerned. I mean are we getting to the point that we place such a financial value on tokens that a regular volunteer will no longer be able to man the treasure box because of trust issues between players and volunteers?

Unfortunately, it looks like we are headed in that direction.

We have multiple players who are concerned about simply removing their treasure enhancers from their binders or sleeves.

We have multiple players who are concerned about having someone else (even someone they know or one of their friends) carrying the treasure enhancers throughout the dungeon.

It sounds like you think people are concerned they can't trust their friends not to take their tokens. If so, that's not what I thought people were saying, and certainly not what I said. I'm concerned about tokens getting accidentally lost in the process of taking them out of the binder and having 10 different people carrying them through the dungeon. Especially when 9 of those people have no affinity for tokens. That's almost a guarantee that some CoA will get lost by someone eventually. I'm certainly not worried my friends will steal them. I will think twice before letting someone I don't know and trust carry them, which is I'm sure what Jeff was aiming for.

I'm not concerned about a volunteer doing a switcharoo while inspecting them.

Ro-gan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I hadn't even realized counterfeit TE Tokens was an issue. I wonder if True Dungeon positively identified some. I hope anyone that counterfeits them (or any tokens) gets caught and punished.

I've been following these insane threads since TDC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there aren't counterfeit Tokens. The term "counterfeit" came up in a post describing CoA's being used simultaneously in multiple Runs at the same time.

I remember saying that using one token on multiple simultaneous runs was the equivalent of counterfeiting. Sorry if I confused things

My first role as a volunteer was at the XP desk and the treasure box. Back when we entered the XP for runs. Now I coach. Both have their challenges.

I think this whole thing is getting way blown up. I trust my son and his friends. I trust my Team Synergy friends. I have many friends among the volunteer pool. I trust them too.

I loaned my enter Wizard build to a new player at TDC for True Horde Saturday evening. I didn't think twice about doing it. Of course he didn't have to take any weapons out the binder. Pointless given his stats. He had a blast by the way. Was killed, raised with a 1 point mushroom and immediately launched a spell using the Mad Evokers Charm to die again. I salute you, sir! He's hooked on TD now.



I don't fear malice. I do fear accidents. I'm already working on a solution to minimize the chance of that for the groups I run with. Its doable.


Let's dial it down, friends. We can manage this.

I don't have a problem with my friends carrying my CoAs or ISSNs.

I don't have a problem showing volunteers tokens, or letting them hold them.

I did find a cheap travel wallet (neck based) that appears to have a zipper. I may be purchasing a few of these. They were only $2 apiece.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I don't have a problem with my friends carrying my CoAs or ISSNs.

I don't have a problem showing volunteers tokens, or letting them hold them.

I did find a cheap travel wallet (neck based) that appears to have a zipper. I may be purchasing a few of these. They were only $2 apiece.

I'd be curious to learn more about where you found it.

found it on amazon.

smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00WTHIXLA/ref=AmazonBasics_HQP_3P?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=hero-quick-promo&pf_rd_r=H7EA0B9JNA46VHAE09H4&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=2286283582&pf_rd_i=B0069V8GEG&th=1

Hopefully the link works.

Full disclosure. I do not have one and have not examined it at all yet.