TOPIC: "Ghosting" a run for Treasure - Changed at GenCon?

Mike Steele wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Matt wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I'm back to selling the bubbles.

There are two bubbles every, what, 3.5 hours? You're talking about a 10% increase in ticket sales.

Which, by the way, is less than the 12% increase in the treasure cap from the first Nugget, with two more to go.

If you're worried about treasure deflation, you should oppose the Nuggets.

At this point i'd be all for keeping the CoGF and AoTF on continous reprint where it works out 1 is always avail as pyp. This keeps treasure enhancers in print and allows a usable path to the CoA. Helps build a bridge on have and have nots regarding treasure. That way if someone wants to spend the money and time collecting they can get there and not be shut out. Adding the IS: nugget is just pushing that bridge wider and longer.

Here's a possible idea, at end of con auction off the extra treasure pulls/'unsold tickets/runs'. Let people put money where mouth is and offer a way to TD to get money and the treasure hawgs to get their extra treasure.

That seems reasonable.

The big question (which only Jeff knows) is whether he needs the influx of revenue generated from a new UR Treasure Enhancer. Or whether the amount generated from a reprinted CoGF/AoTF will be sufficient (cause you probably won't see people like jedibcg and Mike Steele buying 10 of those).

Agreed, I think reprints would bring in a lot less revenue. A continuing reprint cycle would bring less and less revenue, especially if people knew they were going to be reprinted again.

Future reprints only affect the secondary token market value, not the value of tokens bought from TD

Plus if we are talking about a 6 token reprint cycle only reprinting tokens so that 1 URTE is in cycle at a time we are talking 2023 before RoR gets reprinted 2025 for CoGF

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Reprints would definitely encourage me to get enough to build up to 10 CoA, but never build or buy TE again, unless a new one was released.

A continual rotation including

AoTF
RoR
CoGF

adding in the 3 new ioun stones

Would be a pretty solid rotation. It would give players access to multiple URTE tokens and keep the CoA attainable. It will be interesting to see if the new Ioun Stones are added to the CoA recipies or if they are part of a new Legendary. Simplicity says Option 1 so CoA stays relatively simple to craft but Option 2 allows the reduction of slots in the future.

Both seem good, not sure you can support both options tho without having effectively 2 recipies for 2 different legendary TE tokens that are effectively the same recipe which would just be confusing

I recommend option 3. The Charm of Avarice recipe stays as is, and isn't altered by new TEURs. The new TEURs would count towards the next Legendary compilation token. That should take us to 2023, if it incorporates the AoTF, the 3 Ioun Stones, and the next TEUR.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Reprints would definitely encourage me to get enough to build up to 10 CoA, but never build or buy TE again, unless a new one was released.

A continual rotation including

AoTF
RoR
CoGF

adding in the 3 new ioun stones

Would be a pretty solid rotation. It would give players access to multiple URTE tokens and keep the CoA attainable. It will be interesting to see if the new Ioun Stones are added to the CoA recipies or if they are part of a new Legendary. Simplicity says Option 1 so CoA stays relatively simple to craft but Option 2 allows the reduction of slots in the future.

Both seem good, not sure you can support both options tho without having effectively 2 recipies for 2 different legendary TE tokens that are effectively the same recipe which would just be confusing

I recommend option 3. The Charm of Avarice recipe stays as is, and isn't altered by new TEURs. The new TEURs would count towards the next Legendary compilation token. That should take us to 2023, if it incorporates the AoTF, the 3 Ioun Stones, and the next TEUR.

Yep that's also a valid thought

@Matt - auction? No one will pay over $540 for one. If the price goes above, they'll just buy real tickets. So you're actually offering a discount.

@Raven - we're painted into a corner and there's no nice way out that won't involve wailing and gnashing of teeth for one reason or another. Cap loot, drop the Nuggets, increase percentage of uncommons to devalue the loot so farming isn't profitable, hobble ghosts - whatever you do, someone is going to scream foul.

1-2: those are implementation. I said use ticketing system as an example, but you could do it other ways. But...
3: if someone is paying $540 for one ticket, I'm hoping they did their research. And if they don't and demand a refund, it's found money anyway. Not being on a 12 minute leash, it should be easily resellable.
4. Worst case - an increase of ticket sales by 10% (84 farm tickets) * 190 each = say 17,000 treasure, and TD gets $45k. (All figures approximate.) Leftovers can go to the satellite cons. (You can change the number from 84 to something smaller. Or bigger. Whatever.)

That's on top of whatever extra loot is required to support the influx of Nuggets.

And that's assuming any of them sell. That's why I'd think there should be some sort of pre-sale system so that TD isn't lugging around 400lbs of tokens for no reason. But, I guess when you're filling up two semis, that's not that much weight.

The problems with an auction are, When? How? Sunday is a day when those who aren't tearing down are heading home. So onsite doesn't work. I think that's one reason the old gold auctions ended when we started running Sundays.

I suppose you could do forum (which a lot of people don't visit) or eBay, whom I use but hate with a white-hot rage.

Anyway, not saying it's the best solution. But it would potentially clear away a few profit-only farmers, if there are any, to make room for players to play.

jedibcg wrote: This is a generic statement about tokens in general not specifically about TE tokens. I would think reprints would make money for Jeff and Co, but not at the same rate as new tokens. And not at the same rate as tokens for a new slot. But I really don't want to derail this conversation. So sorry if I did.

I think the value of Treasure Enhancing tokens is pretty integral to the overall problem of people Ghosting for Treasure.

In fact, there's a whole other avenue of discussion (while we *cough*not so*cough* patiently wait for the next Token Development update**):

Would selling Treasure Runs / Auctioning Treasure / Selling straight-up Treasure packs be over-all better or worse than increasing numbers of Treasure Enhancing tokens?



** Sorry - meant to post this earlier, but then got distracted by the update : )

Raven wrote:

jedibcg wrote: This is a generic statement about tokens in general not specifically about TE tokens. I would think reprints would make money for Jeff and Co, but not at the same rate as new tokens. And not at the same rate as tokens for a new slot. But I really don't want to derail this conversation. So sorry if I did.

I think the value of Treasure Enhancing tokens is pretty integral to the overall problem of people Ghosting for Treasure.

In fact, there's a whole other avenue of discussion (while we *cough*not so*cough* patiently wait for the next Token Development update**):

Would selling Treasure Runs / Auctioning Treasure / Selling straight-up Treasure packs be over-all better or worse than increasing numbers of Treasure Enhancing tokens?



** Sorry - meant to post this earlier, but then got distracted by the update : )

Adding another treasure enhancing relic will only exacerbate the problem too. Good news is the statement that the lenses are the planned 4 year transmute and not the IS nugget.

I really like Matts idea of allowing people to buy unused tickets for treasure pulls.

This keeps the treasure tokens capped at those already available. As long as they are distributed evenly and fairly to anyone that wants to buy. I would not auction them, but sell them at face value.

Doesn't solve the ghost issue, but it should result in an actual complete sellout at least at gencon.

Matt wrote: Adding another treasure enhancing relic will only exacerbate the problem too.

I'm with ya there.

But I can also understand that TE tokens (UR, and transmuatable higher) drive a significant portion of TD's sales.

Good news is the statement that the lenses are the planned 4 year transmute and not the IS nugget.

That's being discussed still in the other forum, and I would (after years of experience) caution against saying "X is planned" because plans change. Plus, from the way I read it, the one may not exclude the other.

I'm strongly against modifying the CoA recipe to use future URs. Unless one of the URs already in it is reprinted.

Kirk Bauer wrote: I'm strongly against modifying the CoA recipe to use future URs. Unless one of the URs already in it is reprinted.

But i could see a transmute that used the proposed IS Nuggets.

Harlax wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I'm strongly against modifying the CoA recipe to use future URs. Unless one of the URs already in it is reprinted.

But i could see a transmute that used the proposed IS Nuggets.

During one of the early series of token posts, I thought Jeff had said they would be part of a multi year transmute.

Many people speculated that the amulet of treasure finding might also be required for said transmute.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: I'm strongly against modifying the CoA recipe to use future URs. Unless one of the URs already in it is reprinted.

But i could see a transmute that used the proposed IS Nuggets.

During one of the early series of token posts, I thought Jeff had said they would be part of a multi year transmute.

Many people speculated that the amulet of treasure finding might also be required for said transmute.

Possibly. But debating which tokens go into which transmutes isn't the topic here. Its whether printing new TE's - and thereby Raising the Treasure Cap again - is going to tip the scales to make Treasure Farming profitable. Or even more profitable, if it already is so.

I can't say exactly where that tipping point is, but it's definitely adding weight to the scale.