TOPIC: Best Possible Treasure Enhancer Configuration

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

jedibcg wrote: sorry i fail to see any risk if you have an aotf and assume there won’t be alt recipe? or what risk there is for those same folks if there an alt. no one is saying there won’t be a recipe that uses them. And very likely it will be WAY ‘cheaper’ than an alt (assuming you got them as PYP or PYP prices).

The risk is holding onto it for 10 years and passing up selling it for a big profit now and having years to have the money work for you. It's an opportunity cost risk. Plenty of people have said they sold theirs for the money now, assuming they would have an alternate recipe in 2026. That's mostly if you already have a HoP or CoA, otherwise you're benefiting from the AoTF every run.

If you don't have one, the risk is bigger of course, since you're probably paying $300 or more and then holding onto it for 7 years.

plenty of people sold saying they believe there would be alt, really? please provide. i have seen folks saying they sold it, yes, but not because they believe there will be an alt. Not saying you are wrong, just asking you to provide data with a statement like that. Those also would NOT be the people that risk anything HAVING an AoTF and there being an alt.
Anyone holding onto one or several expecting to sell them in 10 is risking them going up the same as any other token for 10 years with expectancy of it selling it for more. That 10 year risk is always there. Granted how much it MAY go up is depentant on LOTS of factors.

This is the conversation I was thinking of. kurtreznor on post 9 agrees with my post about the lost opportunity cost of tying up that much value in tokens for 10 years and says that's why he sold his AoTFs, and he also says that (in his opinion of course) there will almost certainly be an alternate/second recipe. There were a couple of other posts regarding alternate recipes in that thread, but nothing too in depth.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=5&id=246738&start=0

I read that entire thread. I still question the plenty that sold expecting an alt as Kent is the only person i saw in it that said so.

Expecting an alt recipe was only a small part of the decision. The main reason is that they were nearly useless to me. I had almost $1000 tied up in a handful of tokens i couldnt use (except as loaners). Expecting an alt recipe just made it easier to let them go.
And to clarify vs brads comment, i wasnt making much on them when i sold; if you want to maximize profit, you need to time your sell just before jeff announces that there will be an alt recipe. Of course, even then, the market value of the AoTF will likely influence the cost difference for the alt recipe, so you wont really gain/lose much at that point if you want the new legendary TE.

Azzy wrote:

jpotter wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: [

If the two UR TEs after the nuggets do stack with the CoA (and I think it's pretty obvious they will), it doesn't make a lot of sense for the transmute that combines them to not transmute with the CoA.

And, I for one will very happily do 35 token pulls per Dungeon.

Interesting. In my own head I was fairly certain they were going to say something along the lines of "may not be equipped with coa, hop, or rotf" on them. I envisioned Jeff wanting to make a new set of TEs for the new wave of players, in order to let them 'catch up' as it were.

We will see!

I feel like I would be pretty surprised if they didn't continue the AoTF route of non-nugget TEs not stacking with CoA.

I think the only reason the AoTF didn't stack with the CoA was because it was in the same slot as the HoP, which was part of the CoA. I don't have the link (if anyone can find it that would be great), but I recall Jeff saying that he wouldn't do that again, that in the future there wouldn't be more TE tokens in a slot than there were available slots (for instance, there won't be more than two TE tokens taking up Ring slots).

I think that if the new policy were that new TE tokens wouldn't stack with previous ones and CoA, then the Nuggets wouldn't stack with them either.

Azzy wrote: ...the two UR TEs after the nuggets ...

Can you veterans help me out by what you mean by after the nuggets. I assume the two nuggets are the Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (and now the gold nugget which just came out in 2019).

Does this mean every year there is a TE included in the PYP selection? IE for 2020, can we expect, in some slot (Maybe Ioun Stone, Maybe an Ear Cuff, etc), that a Treasure Enhancer will be on the menu?

Also out of curiosity, it sounds like if you get in on the PYP during the current season, the price hovers around $100, so some folks do a bit of forecasting and pick up extras. I bought 1 Gold Nugget, are there some folks out there that bought up several? (Either hoping it would be part of a recipe, or simply increase in value)

Chris Foster wrote:

Azzy wrote: ...the two UR TEs after the nuggets ...

Can you veterans help me out by what you mean by after the nuggets. I assume the two nuggets are the Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (and now the gold nugget which just came out in 2019).

Does this mean every year there is a TE included in the PYP selection? IE for 2020, can we expect, in some slot (Maybe Ioun Stone, Maybe an Ear Cuff, etc), that a Treasure Enhancer will be on the menu?

Also out of curiosity, it sounds like if you get in on the PYP during the current season, the price hovers around $100, so some folks do a bit of forecasting and pick up extras. I bought 1 Gold Nugget, are there some folks out there that bought up several? (Either hoping it would be part of a recipe, or simply increase in value)

Jeff laid out his plans for the future of TE's in this thread
www.truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=527&id=244042

While it has never been officially stated (to my knowledge) it seems likely there will always be an in print TE.

And yup, lots of people tend to buy extra TEs while they are in print because they have historically gone up in price even if they are not going to be used in known recipes.

Chris Foster wrote:

Azzy wrote: ...the two UR TEs after the nuggets ...

Can you veterans help me out by what you mean by after the nuggets. I assume the two nuggets are the Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (and now the gold nugget which just came out in 2019).

Does this mean every year there is a TE included in the PYP selection? IE for 2020, can we expect, in some slot (Maybe Ioun Stone, Maybe an Ear Cuff, etc), that a Treasure Enhancer will be on the menu?

Also out of curiosity, it sounds like if you get in on the PYP during the current season, the price hovers around $100, so some folks do a bit of forecasting and pick up extras. I bought 1 Gold Nugget, are there some folks out there that bought up several? (Either hoping it would be part of a recipe, or simply increase in value)

You're correct, there are a lot of people that bought more Silver Nuggets (and now Golden Nuggets) than they need while they were/are available as PYPs, hoping for an increase in price later.

You're also right that, at least through 2026, there will be a UR TE available for order as a PYP every year (a new one every two years available for two years each). Regarding what everyone is talking about regarding the two PYPs following the Nuggets, we're all referring to a statement Jeff made 2 years and four months ago. I posted the link to it, but here's the actual statement:

"Due to many factors and the development of the "Nugget" Ioun Stones, I thought it would be best to go ahead and make these clarifications.

1) We will publish an Ioun Stone Silver Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2017, an Ioun Stone Gold Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2019, and an Ioun Stone Platinum Nugget (+2 Treasure Coins) in 2021. These three tokens will stack with each other because they have slightly different names. They will stack with the Charm of Avarice.

2) There will be no transmuted token that uses any of the three Ioun Stone Nuggets in its recipe.

3) Assuming Gen Con and TD is still around in about ten years (2026) , the Amulet of Treasure Finding will be used in a transmuted token recipe to make a better treasure-enhancing token. It will be combined with whatever TE-tokens come out in 2023 and 2025.

I know it is a bit crazy to make these pronouncements this far into the future, but it appears to be needed. Thanks for your patience and support. "

Not reprinting the AoTF was also referred to in the thread, here's Jeff's statement on that:

"The Amulet of Treasure Finding will not be reprinted, but that does not preclude the possibility of printing a very similar token at some point in the future. We need some flexibility to react to how the game changes over the years.

Thanks for your understanding."

kurtreznor wrote: Expecting an alt recipe was only a small part of the decision. The main reason is that they were nearly useless to me. I had almost $1000 tied up in a handful of tokens i couldnt use (except as loaners). Expecting an alt recipe just made it easier to let them go.
And to clarify vs brads comment, i wasnt making much on them when i sold; if you want to maximize profit, you need to time your sell just before jeff announces that there will be an alt recipe. Of course, even then, the market value of the AoTF will likely influence the cost difference for the alt recipe, so you wont really gain/lose much at that point if you want the new legendary TE.

Without know if there will be an alt recipe, without know what the recipe (and an alt recipe) is going to 'cost,' without knowing what this future LTE will do (stacking vs not stacking with a CoA, how much treasure) it is all speculation.

It wouldn't surprise me if there were multiple paths to this new LTE, one using the CoA to consolidate TE tokens even more. It wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't. Anything is really possible and we will just have to wait to find out.

Awesome! Thanks for the link and thanks for the quote! So my takeaway from that is that we can expect a new TE every other year on the odd years. I guess I timed my intro to TD just right since the Gold Nugget came out this year

I have a follow-on question on the Etiquette of loaning TE's to other party members on the same run you are on. (Note, I did read a full thread about passing around the SAME token, thus cheating. Here I'm talking about buying multiple tokens, such as me buying a second Gold Nugget)

Is it customary, or frowned upon, to allow a different party member to equip one of your TE's and to ask for the Treasure Pull redemption tokens at the end of questing?

I have only been on 3 runs, and each time someone loaned me Armor, and some stat boosts, asking for nothing in return. It made my day and helped the party over all. I can see loaning a TE to help get a new player excited about playing.

Chris Foster wrote: Awesome! Thanks for the link and thanks for the quote! So my takeaway from that is that we can expect a new TE every other year on the odd years. I guess I timed my intro to TD just right since the Gold Nugget came out this year

I have a follow-on question on the Etiquette of loaning TE's to other party members on the same run you are on. (Note, I did read a full thread about passing around the SAME token, thus cheating. Here I'm talking about buying multiple tokens, such as me buying a second Gold Nugget)

Is it customary, or frowned upon, to allow a different party member to equip one of your TE's and to ask for the Treasure Pull redemption tokens at the end of questing?

I have only been on 3 runs, and each time someone loaned me Armor, and some stat boosts, asking for nothing in return. It made my day and helped the party over all. I can see loaning a TE to help get a new player excited about playing.

As long as you are on the run you can loan out tokens. I am not touching the etiquette if you should get something in return for loaning out TE's or not. I don't want to offend anyone. I can just tell you what I do. If I end up on a run with folks they get as much treasure as I can get them, and I try not to let anyone know how much that is. I just ask if they free up the appropriate slot for more treasure (if they want it). I have had recently broke someone else's deal they made for loaning TE's for treasure since I offered more treasure (Max) for less cost (none). I don't think the person in question cared for it till I made it clear he too was getting max treasure as well. The TD community has been really good to me and I feel it my small way of giving back to the community. If other folks want to loan TE's for treasure that is there business (as far as I am concerned), it is just not something that happens on runs I am on.

Chris Foster wrote: Awesome! Thanks for the link and thanks for the quote! So my takeaway from that is that we can expect a new TE every other year on the odd years. I guess I timed my intro to TD just right since the Gold Nugget came out this year

I have a follow-on question on the Etiquette of loaning TE's to other party members on the same run you are on. (Note, I did read a full thread about passing around the SAME token, thus cheating. Here I'm talking about buying multiple tokens, such as me buying a second Gold Nugget)

Is it customary, or frowned upon, to allow a different party member to equip one of your TE's and to ask for the Treasure Pull redemption tokens at the end of questing?

I have only been on 3 runs, and each time someone loaned me Armor, and some stat boosts, asking for nothing in return. It made my day and helped the party over all. I can see loaning a TE to help get a new player excited about playing.

Loaning out extra TE's to other party members on your run is fine. Loaning them out to people on other runs is frowned upon. Basically the TE should just always go through the dungeon with its owners group.

In terms of compensation for such a loan, opinions are split. Personally I loan out my extra AoTf on runs where my family/friends aren't around to use them and never ask for anything in return.

Picc wrote: In terms of compensation for such a loan, opinions are split. Personally I loan out my extra AoTf on runs where my family/friends aren't around to use them and never ask for anything in return.

Sounds great. Some of the older tokens (CoA?) are going for over a grand, so currently it makes more sense for me to spend that money on enhancing my character (Pick up some Weapons, Armor, and a decent charm or two). Maybe once I have maxed out stats, expensive TE's come into play.

Picking up an extra Gold Nugget for only a hundred bucks though, thats not a bad entry price.

Chris Foster wrote: Awesome! Thanks for the link and thanks for the quote! So my takeaway from that is that we can expect a new TE every other year on the odd years. I guess I timed my intro to TD just right since the Gold Nugget came out this year

I have a follow-on question on the Etiquette of loaning TE's to other party members on the same run you are on. (Note, I did read a full thread about passing around the SAME token, thus cheating. Here I'm talking about buying multiple tokens, such as me buying a second Gold Nugget)

Is it customary, or frowned upon, to allow a different party member to equip one of your TE's and to ask for the Treasure Pull redemption tokens at the end of questing?

I have only been on 3 runs, and each time someone loaned me Armor, and some stat boosts, asking for nothing in return. It made my day and helped the party over all. I can see loaning a TE to help get a new player excited about playing.

I know that this was replied to multiple times, but there is one thing I wanted to add. If you're loaning TE tokens to someone you're on a run with, whether you are giving the person all the treasure chips or doing some sort of split, you should make sure that it is fully understood by both parties ahead of time what that split is going to be. You'd never want to wait until the exit room when treasure chips are being handed out to work out how many each of you get.

Picc wrote: One thing to consider is if we knew there was going to be an alt recipe, it might cause people holding for the legendary to release a few more AOTFs to the people who would actually use them rather then just sitting in parallel to their COAs.

Also worth mentioning we don't know for sure if we will be getting two new TE's after the nuggets. Odds are really good there will always be a TE in print but it could be a reprint. Personally I would love to see CoGF get reprinted (maybe even before the final nugget since it would allow folks who missed it to catchup, help out everyone who already has one, and delay raising in the loot cap for a few more years without impacting the next legendary), just food for thought.

While I don't think that's the way it will go based on past precedent, since TE tokens haven't yet been reprinted, I do agree with you that Jeff's statement doesn't rule out the 2023 and 2025 TE URs being reprints (exact or functional), that wouldn't stack with one or more prior TE tokens. It also doesn't rule out the 2026 Transmute being comprised of the AoTF and two reprints, and not stacking with the CoA or TE tokens comprising the CoA.