TOPIC: Best Possible Treasure Enhancer Configuration

Here is what I do.

1). My son has a group of college friends. The cost of a TD run is too expensive for them (although there always seems to be money for Magic cards. ). For that group I pay for the run and I get the loot.

2). On other runs I loan out whatever I can, but I don’t take a cut. Happy team = successful team.

As well, I have several Rings of Heroism. Those get loaned out as well. I don’t ask for anything for that.
Stronger team = successful team.

I like loot as much (or more) as the next guy. I also like things that increase the fun others have. I don’t run in many pick up groups these days, so I don’t wind up loaning out stuff much anyway.

Others do other things. That’s up to them.

I will say this. I have loaned my CoAs with no expectation of return in the past.

More recently I have asked for half of the difference in the increased treasure that the player I loaned to received. This change started right around GenCon 2017.

I also loan out rings of heroism and charms of awakened Synergy to all, whether they want to borrow the treasure enhancers or not.

I also tend to just give away useful commons and uncommons to help new players fill slots, or make their chosen class more effective in the current year. This isnt a huge cost to me of course, but they seemed to love it this weekend. People kept trying to return them though. It was a little funny, but very cool to see their faces when I said they could keep it.

If I can, I try to get things set up on the forums beforehand. As you might imagine, this doesn't always happen.

As long as it doesnt interfere with the work of the coaches, I allow the new players to select their classes first, and will always play either bard, cleric or druid if they weren't selected, so that the team has a better chance to survive.

I do not think it would be right to ask for all of the increase, because then the new player would get no benefit from it. The point, in my mind, is to create a win win situation.

I certainly would not be offended if people said they didnt think what I was doing was right. It is a fine line to be sure.

My opinion is that 10 CoA, 10 ISSN, 10 ISGN, 10 ISPN (eventually), 10 CoAS, 9 RoH represent a significant investment, and perhaps once I feel that cost has been recouped, I will go back to what I had done in the past.

The great part about this community is the respect that is shown to one another, even through spirited debate

Mike Steele wrote:

Chris Foster wrote: Awesome! Thanks for the link and thanks for the quote! So my takeaway from that is that we can expect a new TE every other year on the odd years. I guess I timed my intro to TD just right since the Gold Nugget came out this year

I have a follow-on question on the Etiquette of loaning TE's to other party members on the same run you are on. (Note, I did read a full thread about passing around the SAME token, thus cheating. Here I'm talking about buying multiple tokens, such as me buying a second Gold Nugget)

Is it customary, or frowned upon, to allow a different party member to equip one of your TE's and to ask for the Treasure Pull redemption tokens at the end of questing?

I have only been on 3 runs, and each time someone loaned me Armor, and some stat boosts, asking for nothing in return. It made my day and helped the party over all. I can see loaning a TE to help get a new player excited about playing.

I know that this was replied to multiple times, but there is one thing I wanted to add. If you're loaning TE tokens to someone you're on a run with, whether you are giving the person all the treasure chips or doing some sort of split, you should make sure that it is fully understood by both parties ahead of time what that split is going to be. You'd never want to wait until the exit room when treasure chips are being handed out to work out how many each of you get.

working out the terms before the run is much advised on the loaning of TEs. personally I go with "tips". if the borrower wants to share, that's great, if not, that's good too.

Mike Steele wrote: I know that this was replied to multiple times, but there is one thing I wanted to add. If you're loaning TE tokens to someone you're on a run with, whether you are giving the person all the treasure chips or doing some sort of split, you should make sure that it is fully understood by both parties ahead of time what that split is going to be. You'd never want to wait until the exit room when treasure chips are being handed out to work out how many each of you get.

This is very good advice. Nothing creates more hard feelings or leaves a worse taste in someone's mouth than a bad ending.

I also suggest not doing it during the run. That would really take away from the experience.

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I still think what Jeff does in 2026 will largely depend on how many of the new Legendary Transmute he wants out there. No alternate recipe would limit it to the amount of AoTF in circulation (Jeff might have a good idea how many that is), an alternate recipe would of course increase that amount. Plus, I'm sure Jeff will be intensely lobbied by both sides. He might be dreading dealing with this debate in 2026.

Jeff is pretty smart. I predict he retires the week after GenCon 2026 and makes someone else deal with this headache.

Omg I can see Stu being like nope not touching that one.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I will say this. I have loaned my CoAs with no expectation of return in the past.

More recently I have asked for half of the difference in the increased treasure that the player I loaned to received. This change started right around GenCon 2017.

I also loan out rings of heroism and charms of awakened Synergy to all, whether they want to borrow the treasure enhancers or not.

I also tend to just give away useful commons and uncommons to help new players fill slots, or make their chosen class more effective in the current year. This isnt a huge cost to me of course, but they seemed to love it this weekend. People kept trying to return them though. It was a little funny, but very cool to see their faces when I said they could keep it.

If I can, I try to get things set up on the forums beforehand. As you might imagine, this doesn't always happen.

As long as it doesnt interfere with the work of the coaches, I allow the new players to select their classes first, and will always play either bard, cleric or druid if they weren't selected, so that the team has a better chance to survive.

I do not think it would be right to ask for all of the increase, because then the new player would get no benefit from it. The point, in my mind, is to create a win win situation.

I certainly would not be offended if people said they didnt think what I was doing was right. It is a fine line to be sure.

My opinion is that 10 CoA, 10 ISSN, 10 ISGN, 10 ISPN (eventually), 10 CoAS, 9 RoH represent a significant investment, and perhaps once I feel that cost has been recouped, I will go back to what I had done in the past.

The great part about this community is the respect that is shown to one another, even through spirited debate

I haven't talked about this publicly that much but I had to sell one of my COA over the summer to pay for some bills while I was out of work. I lost my last COA at gameholecon this year somewhere between a run and the bathroom because I had loaned out the COA for a run and stupidly just put it back in my pocket. It kinda sucks losing over a grand in the span of a few minutes. I get it wade wanting to have some recoup on the investment he is basically walking around with a new car worth of tokens. I am looking forward to the RFID chips because I know we have to take them out for counterfeiting but frankly I wouldn't have lost it if I had been able to keep it in my binder where it belonged.

kurtreznor wrote: And to clarify vs brads comment, i wasnt making much on them when i sold; if you want to maximize profit, you need to time your sell just before jeff announces that there will be an alt...

To clarify my comment: the behavior you describe is not what I would call “speculation.” You bought them to use, and decided you didn’t need them anymore. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t think selling at a profit is in itself anything like “evil.”

I’m talking about people who bought handfuls and sat on them specifically wanting to cash in at the peak by selling them, probably to a newbie who would then watch their investment shrink if things work out the way the speculators want. I’ve been on the losing side of too many of those transactions before, especially when I was newer to the game. They’re demoralizing.

I don’t think that sort of behavior is good for the game as a whole. It makes some people a few bucks by milking newbies instead of encouraging them. So an alt recipe means you (not you, Kent) can’t squeeze enough money out of new players? I bristle at hearing that described as “risk.” I prefer “karma.”

But maybe I’m too idealistic and see things differently.

Besides, the alt CoA recipe did result in a drop in HoP values, but after a couple of years they’re back to pretty much where they were before. I’m sure the same will happen to AoTFs.

A newbie who bought an AoTF today would get 7 years of use out it of before the transmute. If they ran all three dungeons once per year, thats 84 extra treasure tokens. Not shabby.

Add in the two current IS tokens and you are up to 11 per run. Also not shabby.

Harlax wrote: A newbie who bought an AoTF today would get 7 years of use out it of before the transmute. If they ran all three dungeons once per year, thats 84 extra treasure tokens. Not shabby.

Add in the two current IS tokens and you are up to 11 per run. Also not shabby.

Agreed. I think I said as much a few pages back, but I didn’t show my math TEs have always paid for themselves over time, and even at today’s price the AoTF is no exception.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

kurtreznor wrote: And to clarify vs brads comment, i wasnt making much on them when i sold; if you want to maximize profit, you need to time your sell just before jeff announces that there will be an alt...

To clarify my comment: the behavior you describe is not what I would call “speculation.” You bought them to use, and decided you didn’t need them anymore. Nothing wrong with that. I don’t think selling at a profit is in itself anything like “evil.”

I’m talking about people who bought handfuls and sat on them specifically wanting to cash in at the peak by selling them, probably to a newbie who would then watch their investment shrink if things work out the way the speculators want. I’ve been on the losing side of too many of those transactions before, especially when I was newer to the game. They’re demoralizing.

I don’t think that sort of behavior is good for the game as a whole. It makes some people a few bucks by milking newbies instead of encouraging them. So an alt recipe means you (not you, Kent) can’t squeeze enough money out of new players? I bristle at hearing that described as “risk.” I prefer “karma.”

But maybe I’m too idealistic and see things differently.

Besides, the alt CoA recipe did result in a drop in HoP values, but after a couple of years they’re back to pretty much where they were before. I’m sure the same will happen to AoTFs.

I don't really understand the scenario you're describing here for the AoTF: "I’m talking about people who bought handfuls and sat on them specifically wanting to cash in at the peak by selling them, probably to a newbie who would then watch their investment shrink if things work out the way the speculators want."

What is "the way" the "speculators" want things to work out to drop value on AoTF after they sell them? I don't really see AoTF values dropping regardless of whether there is an alternate recipe or not. Are you talking about people with AoTF not being in favor of an alternate recipe? If so, depending on what that alternate recipe is and what the transmute does, that would actually probably increase the value of the AoTF someone might buy now.

I don't agree in general with the negative light you portray people who buy tokens for resale in, but that's a matter of personal opinion.

Mike Steele wrote: I don't agree in general with the negative light you portray people who buy tokens for resale in, but that's a matter of personal opinion.

^ this, mostly because if it those people didn't exist, neither I nor any other new players have a decent way of getting older tokens aside from yearning for an eventual reprint that may or may not happen eventually (maybe).

On the topic of loaning out TEs, I personally don’t feel right asking for anything in return. That said it’s why I don’t have more than 1 CoA. It is hard to justify the cost when the only time you are going to get use of it for yourself is when ghosting. My CoA has paid for itself in a year due to crazy good luck on pulls, but you can’t except that to happen.

As for profiteering, I have no problems with it if done in good faith. If I pick up extra ISGN now and sell them later for the market rate for a profit, then good for me and fair to the buyer.