TOPIC: Skull Con and Patron Side Event in June!

Same, Zinniz! Solid +1 to your sentiment.

I very much appreciate the virtual offering that has been added. If staying busy at SkullCon is a concern, by all means, do an in-person run there as well. Not trying to take anything away from that weekend. But the idea that a new-er player who is enthusiastic enough to aspire to a Patron pin this year just isn't worth considering was rough to swallow.

zinniz wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thank you for the suggestions, but I promised a "Skull Bearer Only" event, and we had better stick to that pledge. I think a person who has been faithfully collecting Teeth for seven years deserves what they were promised.

I only added the Patron event because I thought it was a shame to waste the situation with all those Patrons being together in one space -- and not giving them something, too.

Thank you for reconsidering the "skull only" patron event. As a new and enthusiastic player just introduced to the game during VTD earlier this year, then finally in person at GHC, I was entirely understanding of the special event for skull holders only, as that was part of the perks for the token. My boyfriend has one and I'm totally jealous, but after investing in a CoA and a couple other class tokens, the cost/benefit for a skull just isn't there for me as a newer player. I'd much rather add whomp to my barbarian.

Anyway, my boyfriend and I had a post GHC moment of excitement where we realized we could split an 8k patron pack and maybe if we're lucky, pick up an extra patron badge so we could have a fun event to do together. He had mentioned it would likely be at Origins so that would be a new con to go to, etc. We spent hours working on our PYP list for the purchase.

The announcement yesterday was a slap in the face to all that new player excitement. It was a solid "yeah you spent the money but you're still not good enough" feel. That feeling SUCKED. Then other people tried to dismiss similar feelings as ~oh well almost no one fits into that circle on the venn diagram so it's fine~. $8000 is not a trivial purchase and such careless disregard for a portion of those buyers felt beyond bad.

The virtual patron run is a good idea not only for people without skulls but also for people who might have issues traveling. It's a win all around and only feels bad in that it wasn't considered up front.

Patron events are not a guarantee, never have been. I understand you might not know that as a new player so just providing that info. If Jeff chooses to do something special for Patrons that is and has always been his choice. When there has been something special it has varied year to year.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

zinniz wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thank you for the suggestions, but I promised a "Skull Bearer Only" event, and we had better stick to that pledge. I think a person who has been faithfully collecting Teeth for seven years deserves what they were promised.

I only added the Patron event because I thought it was a shame to waste the situation with all those Patrons being together in one space -- and not giving them something, too.

Thank you for reconsidering the "skull only" patron event. As a new and enthusiastic player just introduced to the game during VTD earlier this year, then finally in person at GHC, I was entirely understanding of the special event for skull holders only, as that was part of the perks for the token. My boyfriend has one and I'm totally jealous, but after investing in a CoA and a couple other class tokens, the cost/benefit for a skull just isn't there for me as a newer player. I'd much rather add whomp to my barbarian.

Anyway, my boyfriend and I had a post GHC moment of excitement where we realized we could split an 8k patron pack and maybe if we're lucky, pick up an extra patron badge so we could have a fun event to do together. He had mentioned it would likely be at Origins so that would be a new con to go to, etc. We spent hours working on our PYP list for the purchase.

The announcement yesterday was a slap in the face to all that new player excitement. It was a solid "yeah you spent the money but you're still not good enough" feel. That feeling SUCKED. Then other people tried to dismiss similar feelings as ~oh well almost no one fits into that circle on the venn diagram so it's fine~. $8000 is not a trivial purchase and such careless disregard for a portion of those buyers felt beyond bad.

The virtual patron run is a good idea not only for people without skulls but also for people who might have issues traveling. It's a win all around and only feels bad in that it wasn't considered up front.

I wouldn't assume it wasn't considered up front, particularly given that is exactly what was done last year.

That said, I can see how this would completely feel like a gut punch.

Hopefully there can be both events, and Patrons could choose whether they want the in person or the virtual?

Patrons have the option to do both -- if they can make both. Some rural folks don't have access to fast Internet, so they are locked out of the Virtual event. It is hoped they can make it to Skull Con.

Just chiming in to say that offering a virtual Patron event in addition to the in-person Patron event at Skull Con makes a lot of sense to me. The virtual event will allow Patrons who don’t have a Skull, or who do have a Skull but can’t make it to Skull Con for whatever reason, to have the fun of a Patron event. All Patrons will have a chance to get that reward. (Some people will inevitably have conflicts, but there won’t be any cost of time or money to travel, and they won’t also need a separate expensive token.)

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep, basically in a normal year the only thing I need is a badge for the convention and the patron pin/code.

This year if I don't own a skull I can't attend the patron event?

That seems really shitty to people who don't own a skull but might buy enough tokens to be a patron.

Is there something available for patrons who DON'T own a skull or are they just out of luck for 2022?

I guess I could just cancel the Patron event at Skull Con, but I was really looking forward to hanging out with Patrons after a few years of not seeing anyone. It is hard for me to get away from home these days, and I didn't get to go to GHC.

Okay...since I don't want to bum people out, and I want everyone to be happy...

Last proclamation:

We will ALSO host an exclusive Virtual event for Patrons in October of 2022 open to ALL 2022 Patrons -- even those who attend Skull Con. I will update the appropriate pages.

Jeff - I would encourage you to have the Patron event in person at Skullcon. The negative comments were VASTLY outnumbered by positive ones for combining the events. Arcanist doesn't speak for everyone regardless of his volume of posts. Virtual for Patron is good but in person is vastly better. Having 2 different adventures makes the trip more worthwhile for the rest of us who planned to attend. It sounds like placating a tiny number of very loud people to dampen what is available to the vast majority.

Before making changes, I recommend TD quantifies the number of people actually impacted who were really willing to spend the money to go and commit to that now. My guess is the total is less than 10 people would be negatively impacted and I'm 100% certain other skull holders can help them out (between myself and half a dozen other people - we have dozens of extra skull codes we can help with.) On the other side, moving the Patron event negatively impacts an order of magnitude more people who are planning to attend.

Fred

^^^I'm with Fred. However, I would also like to present an alternative that skates around your proclomation for an exclusive event for Skull owners and makes putting on this event less of a hit to the TD coffers.

1) Like TDC, open the event up to anyone. However, those that do not have a Skull of Cavadar cannot participate in that exclusive Skull of Cavadar run.

2) Have the Patron in person event. It's only for Patrons, just like at TDC.

3) Have a second run that anyone who attends can join.

4) Bring back Grind. It could be a small down and dirty, set up in the bar area even so people could watch as they hang out and drink. Grind is fun to watch and will turn the bar into a lively place of TD sport!

I think the problem is a space limitation more than anything.

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It seems there are other buildings on the property that could be used. Heck, an outdoor "dungeon" under a tent or partially in the woods would be a unique experience. Opening up this event to everyone, while still have exclusive elements would be very attractive to both new and long time players.

A tent for grind or a PYP thing would be great. Here's to hoping the weather gods are kind .

Fred

Jeff Martin wrote: Here's the only way I can see "leasing" your Skull token to someone for money so they can get into Skull Con.

By April 1st you will have to have acquired their name so you can register them.

The Skull token you have leased them will have to be presented at Skull Con so the token can be validated. If you trust them, you can just send them the token and they will return it to you later. If you don't trust them, you (or an agent) will have to be present at Skull Con registration to show the Skull token leased when the leasee wishes to check into Skull Con. The authentication software will record all IDs and we will also record the unique number of each token so that a token cannot be used twice.

When someone checks into the Con, they will get a badge with their name on it. On the back will also be the start time of the two-hour event.

How the start time of their two-hour event is determined is not exactly known at this time. Lori is working that out, but that process won't start for a few months -- maybe even after April 1st.

Any other questions?

Jeff - thank you for your flexibility on all this. It is amazing you are running an event at such a cool place. I do have a few questions...
1. If someone wants to do both the patron event at skullcon and the virtual event - do they need 2 separate patron codes? It seems like the answer would be yes as that sounds logical.
2. Are the virtual event and in-person skullcon patron events the same thing?
3. I had a great time helping with set-up at GHC (my first time volunteering) - is there a need for volunteers? I'm sure quite a few people (including myself) would be interested in helping.
4. Any chance we could work in a Jib-jub versus Grunnel event into SkullCon? Perhaps Jib-Jub-Gorgon versus Grunnel and his allies?

Fred

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote:

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As I recall, the parking lot by the bar (building in front) filled-up quickly.

In the photo you can see the large mound behind that building. The hobbit hole entrance is behind the mound by the pine trees (you can see the covered walkway there). I think the small square thing in the center of the mound is the sky light in the vaulted circular room. Hopefully they will get to use that space again.

I would just like to echo the appreciation for a patron-only event that’s separate from SkullCon. We do exist, even if we may not be the most active on the forums.

Okay...how about this idea for Patrons during Skull Con weeekend?

Instead of having the Patron event at Walker's Bluff, we have the cool event either outside at the D&D Park or inside at the TD HQ Studio. So, there would be two separate events that happen over the same weekend -- about 3 miles apart.

1) Skull Con - you gotta have a Skull Con badge to enter and play the two-hour event

2) Patron Event - you gotta be a 2022 Patron to play it at TD HQ (but you don't need a Skull Con badge).

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Fred K wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Here's the only way I can see "leasing" your Skull token to someone for money so they can get into Skull Con.

By April 1st you will have to have acquired their name so you can register them.

The Skull token you have leased them will have to be presented at Skull Con so the token can be validated. If you trust them, you can just send them the token and they will return it to you later. If you don't trust them, you (or an agent) will have to be present at Skull Con registration to show the Skull token leased when the leasee wishes to check into Skull Con. The authentication software will record all IDs and we will also record the unique number of each token so that a token cannot be used twice.

When someone checks into the Con, they will get a badge with their name on it. On the back will also be the start time of the two-hour event.

How the start time of their two-hour event is determined is not exactly known at this time. Lori is working that out, but that process won't start for a few months -- maybe even after April 1st.

Any other questions?

Jeff - thank you for your flexibility on all this. It is amazing you are running an event at such a cool place. I do have a few questions...
1. If someone wants to do both the patron event at skullcon and the virtual event - do they need 2 separate patron codes? It seems like the answer would be yes as that sounds logical.
2. Are the virtual event and in-person skullcon patron events the same thing?
3. I had a great time helping with set-up at GHC (my first time volunteering) - is there a need for volunteers? I'm sure quite a few people (including myself) would be interested in helping.
4. Any chance we could work in a Jib-jub versus Grunnel event into SkullCon? Perhaps Jib-Jub-Gorgon versus Grunnel and his allies?

Fred

1. If someone wants to do both the patron event at skullcon and the virtual event - do they need 2 separate patron codes? It seems like the answer would be yes as that sounds logical. Yes, they are separate events.
2. Are the virtual event and in-person skullcon patron events the same thing? EDITED: Crud, we better make them the same, but we will have different Participation tokens for each. They will be a bit different since one will be a VTD version, though.
3. I had a great time helping with set-up at GHC (my first time volunteering) - is there a need for volunteers? I'm sure quite a few people (including myself) would be interested in helping. Talk to the Boss Lady for details, but yes.
4. Any chance we could work in a Jib-jub versus Grunnel event into SkullCon? Perhaps Jib-Jub-Gorgon versus Grunnel and his allies? Mmm....maybe....

EDITED #2

Jeff, just know that no matter what you decide, I'm happy and support your decision.

I think your offer of the separate event is nice. I do question how many non-skull-owning patrons (or patrons without access to a skull) would make the trip to Carbondale for just the patron event. Maybe there's a lot. I don't know. I thought virtual was a great option for those that couldn't make it.

Jeff Martin wrote: Okay...how about this idea for Patrons during Skull Con weeekend?

Instead of having the Patron event at Walker's Bluff, we have the cool event either outside at the D&D Park or inside at the TD HQ Studio. So, there would be two separate events that happen over the same weekend -- about 3 miles apart.

1) Skull Con - you gotta have a Skull Con badge to enter and play the two-hour event

2) Patron Event - you gotta be a 2022 Patron to play it at TD HQ (but you don't need a Skull Con badge).

Thoughts?

Thanks!

This seems worse than having a live patron event at the con. It's overly complicated. Are patrons incentivized to travel to not attend the con? I'm sure someone is, but is it enough people to justify this weirdness?

I'd much rather just have the virtual patron event as the only patron event than have to worry about two separate events this same weekend. I guess that screws the people who don't want to or can't do virtual events, but they can argue for whatever they prefer.

The reality is that no matter what happens or doesn't happen with TD stuff, someone is going to be unhappy. Trying to cater to outliers is fine if it doesn't come with much cost (including nonmonetary costs), but there comes a point of not trying to handle a small number of exceptions.