TOPIC: Cost?

Picc wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Jeff has said he really wants newbies to get as much of the “real” experience as possible, so I think virtual tokens will be a non-starter. He’d probably prefer the fixed-pack route, if the extra work wasn’t a factor.

And it probably wouldn’t be as bad as I thought. The tokens come from the factory already sorted, so they’d just have to plan it out before they go in the cement mixer.

And just have the ten basic characters. Leave out Dwarf and Elf. One ten-pack of 10-packs per run.

And I’d forget about the URs altogether. They’re discount tickets. If you want them to have an extra shot at a 00, I’d give them a fourth Treasure Chip instead to keep things simple.

For virtual tokens I think we could do something as simple as adding a fee stone to flash scrolls to the medusa room glued to a wall behind a banner or having an actual mirror in the room before the party could pick up. Just so as that the party doesn't feel like they hit a unfair challenge.

In terms of real tokens the ideal solution would be if Jeff either still had, or could print some more token packs from that years set, maybe with different colored backs to drive Trent nuts

I like the idea of giving people a shot at an old UR, it would make the run feel special (though it might be lost on newbies/attract to many vets).

LOL...I wondered why my ears were itching!

Brad Mortensen wrote: Jeff has said he really wants newbies to get as much of the “real” experience as possible, so I think virtual tokens will be a non-starter. He’d probably prefer the fixed-pack route, if the extra work wasn’t a factor.

And it probably wouldn’t be as bad as I thought. The tokens come from the factory already sorted, so they’d just have to plan it out before they go in the cement mixer.

And just have the ten basic characters. Leave out Dwarf and Elf. One ten-pack of 10-packs per run.

And I’d forget about the URs altogether. They’re discount tickets. If you want them to have an extra shot at a 00, I’d give them a fourth Treasure Chip instead to keep things simple.

Not certain what you mean tokens come from the factory already sorted. From everything Jeff and co has said, I believe they come from the factory as seal 10 packs with 1 rare, 2 uncommon and 7commons. To my very limited knowledge Jeff and Co is still manually inserting the UR in every 100th pack. I believe that is why some years i have been able to pick out the UR packs out of my orders (or my gen con packs).

Dave Autzen wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Azzy wrote: With regards to the medusa room, a simple and pretty straightforward approach would be to just have a bit of set dialogue after you beat her along the lines of "searching the room after your victory, you discover a small cache of stone to flesh potions" and let them heal up people who got stoned.

If that’s what you mean, then yes, it’s my understanding they did exactly that once they realized what was happening.

I ran the sealed event Friday morning. After we took care of the medusa, we found 2 stone to flesh scrolls or potions. Problem was 3 people were affected. The guy who stayed stone, opted to leave the dungeon right then.

That sucks. As an event meant for newbies, it would have been nice if the module said there were enough to re-flesh everybody. Sealed deck newbie dungeons should be Non-Lethal, IMO. The main goal as I understand it was to get new players excited about TD with a low-cost introduction with the full experience: token packs, seven rooms, adventure, treasure, and some XP. Killing anyone before room seven doesn’t help any of that. I don’t blame the guy who left after room 5, but he missed out on some cool stuff. I hope he gives TD another chance.

I know a lot of vets ran it too (our schedule was too full, so we didn’t), but it wasn’t for them. Their preferences for real danger and challenge should carry almost zero weight.

It was the first year they did this, and I’m sure they learned a lot. I hope they do it again; I’m sure it will be even better this year.

I have a memory that there was talk of not including the Medusa. That would have been the better play.

i understand that the medusa messed up a high number of groups the first time it debuted and this past time. i really do understand that it did. I really don’t understand why. i have watched enough movies and video games to know about not looking at a medusa. Okay maybe it is my degree in classical civilizations....lol.....who know it might come in handy. I wonder if Jeff felt the same way (rightfully or wrongly) that it was VERY not to get turned to stone, just don’t look at her. They gave you the screen/shadow to know she was a gorgon. as soon as that happened i started looking straight up. but maybe more people don’t know what a gorgon is that I think and that is the fault of my degree, movie watching, and video game playing....lol.

jedibcg wrote: i understand that the medusa messed up a high number of groups the first time it debuted and this past time. i really do understand that it did. I really don’t understand why. i have watched enough movies and video games to know about not looking at a medusa. Okay maybe it is my degree in classical civilizations....lol.....who know it might come in handy. I wonder if Jeff felt the same way (rightfully or wrongly) that it was VERY not to get turned to stone, just don’t look at her. They gave you the screen/shadow to know she was a gorgon. as soon as that happened i started looking straight up. but maybe more people don’t know what a gorgon is that I think and that is the fault of my degree, movie watching, and video game playing....lol.

You had to look at her if you wanted to use any ranged attack.

And I think it was a cool costume, but I only saw it for a few seconds after combat. It’s a shame you got severally punished for appreciating it. And she’s a perfect addition to any snake temple.

The effect could have just been toned down, too. “You’re partially paralyzed - your attacks do half damage” or something

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote: i understand that the medusa messed up a high number of groups the first time it debuted and this past time. i really do understand that it did. I really don’t understand why. i have watched enough movies and video games to know about not looking at a medusa. Okay maybe it is my degree in classical civilizations....lol.....who know it might come in handy. I wonder if Jeff felt the same way (rightfully or wrongly) that it was VERY not to get turned to stone, just don’t look at her. They gave you the screen/shadow to know she was a gorgon. as soon as that happened i started looking straight up. but maybe more people don’t know what a gorgon is that I think and that is the fault of my degree, movie watching, and video game playing....lol.

You had to look at her if you wanted to use any ranged attack.

And I think it was a cool costume, but I only saw it for a few seconds after combat. It’s a shame you got severally punished for appreciating it. And she’s a perfect addition to any snake temple.

The effect could have just been toned down, too. “You’re partially paralyzed - your attacks do half damage” or something

Or everyone got restored after the fight.

Restoring everyone seems much easier. If you dont look, you get to fight. If you so, you might be out of 1 room. Being out of the whole dungeon is too much.

Given that the god was a god of deceit or whatever, I thought the medusa was going to be an illusion and that everyone would be snapped out of it after the room. Thematic appropriateness to deal with a really dumb challenge.

Why is it dumb?

Few ways to deal with it, even back in the day (not 2014, the previous decade) when people were allowed to have collections and where packs for the run included things like mirrors and scrolls of stone to flesh. Even though I ran with another player who played back when the original medusa was in a run, he didn't think to look away, leaving me as the only player in a full group to look away. Then, a lot of other players were confused by the situation to where even the room GMs encouraging looking away during combat that they kept not doing that. We had like four people stoned.

Instakill prior to room 7 is oh so fun for people. Partial undo effects just unfairly penalize the players that don't get restored.

I never saw the actor as I don't know when there's going to be a gotcha moment and the actor for such things is reasonably likely to go hide for the next group, especially given that my normal groups tend to fight really slowly so there's little after combat time. Could have shaken a sheet of foil and it would have had a similar impact as an experience for me. In other words, TD, which puts money into visuals, should encourage players to look at things not discourage them from looking at things.

Ian Lee wrote: Given that the god was a god of deceit or whatever, I thought the medusa was going to be an illusion and that everyone would be snapped out of it after the room. Thematic appropriateness to deal with a really dumb challenge.

Why is it dumb?

Few ways to deal with it, even back in the day (not 2014, the previous decade) when people were allowed to have collections and where packs for the run included things like mirrors and scrolls of stone to flesh. Even though I ran with another player who played back when the original medusa was in a run, he didn't think to look away, leaving me as the only player in a full group to look away. Then, a lot of other players were confused by the situation to where even the room GMs encouraging looking away during combat that they kept not doing that. We had like four people stoned.

Instakill prior to room 7 is oh so fun for people. Partial undo effects just unfairly penalize the players that don't get restored.

I never saw the actor as I don't know when there's going to be a gotcha moment and the actor for such things is reasonably likely to go hide for the next group, especially given that my normal groups tend to fight really slowly so there's little after combat time. Could have shaken a sheet of foil and it would have had a similar impact as an experience for me. In other words, TD, which puts money into visuals, should encourage players to look at things not discourage them from looking at things.

i guess if you were turned to stone you did get to look....lol.

Ian Lee wrote: Given that the god was a god of deceit or whatever, I thought the medusa was going to be an illusion and that everyone would be snapped out of it after the room. Thematic appropriateness to deal with a really dumb challenge.

Why is it dumb?

Few ways to deal with it, even back in the day (not 2014, the previous decade) when people were allowed to have collections and where packs for the run included things like mirrors and scrolls of stone to flesh. Even though I ran with another player who played back when the original medusa was in a run, he didn't think to look away, leaving me as the only player in a full group to look away. Then, a lot of other players were confused by the situation to where even the room GMs encouraging looking away during combat that they kept not doing that. We had like four people stoned.

Instakill prior to room 7 is oh so fun for people. Partial undo effects just unfairly penalize the players that don't get restored.

I never saw the actor as I don't know when there's going to be a gotcha moment and the actor for such things is reasonably likely to go hide for the next group, especially given that my normal groups tend to fight really slowly so there's little after combat time. Could have shaken a sheet of foil and it would have had a similar impact as an experience for me. In other words, TD, which puts money into visuals, should encourage players to look at things not discourage them from looking at things.

I carry very few consumables for the group, but I always have a few Scrolls of Stone to Flesh, as that's one of the few "instant death" results in the adventures from our experience. We also always carry a few Steel or Silver mirrors for the same reason.

Sealed pack runs would not allow outside tokens.

Also, why I love the mirrored Archers buckler