TOPIC: Rare Token Thoughts?

Matthew Hayward wrote: Amulet of Alfheim - Neck - All
+2 STR, +3 CON

That’s basically UR level
I personally think it’s too strong for a rare
Maybe as a transmute it would be fine

Earcuff of the Bat
+1 to hit with any melee attack

Ian Lee wrote: Earcuff of the Bat
+1 to hit with any melee attack

I like the idea, though I don't think we've seen much in the way of attack bonuses out of the earcuff slot.
I could see this as uncommon gloves, or maybe a +2 neck slot at rare? perhaps that would be too good?

Earcuff feels like a more defensive slot thus far, maybe something like -1 melee damage?

I would also support Earcuff of Retribution, 2 piercing to whomever hits player in melee.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: This is only +1/+1 lower than the UR, medallion of Valhalla.

Definitely a huge advance over the Necklace of the Oak (granted this is a much older token)

I'm wondering if maybe this should be a transmute, along the lines of Belt of Ogre Mage Power?

I think that's about right for Rare to UR, compare:

Rare:
- Belt of Ogre Power: +2 STR
- Belt of the Berserker: +3 STR, -2 AC

UR:
- Girdle of Hill Giant Strength: +3 STR
- Girdle of Stone Giant Strength: +4 STR, -1 DEX


Looks like in the waist slot, moving from UR to Rare costs you:

-1 STR, or
-2 AC, or
-2 STR, +1 DEX, or
-1 STR, +1 DEX, -2 AC

depending on which points you compare from.

So I feel -1 STR, -1 CON to move from a neck UR to a rare seems about right.

Following the various differences formulas from the belts would give one of these at rare based off Medallion of Valhalla, and in my estimation my proposal is not particularly better than any of these:

+2 STR, +4 CON
+3 STR, +4 CON, -2 AC
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON
+2 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON, -2 AC

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Amulet of Alfheim - Neck - All
+2 STR, +3 CON

That’s basically UR level
I personally think it’s too strong for a rare
Maybe as a transmute it would be fine

What do you think the gap between R and UR should be in the neck slot ought to be?

It's +1/+1 for pretty much every weapon.

It's +1 STR, or +2 STR/-1 DEX, or +2 AC, or +1 STR, -1 DEX, +2 AC in the waist slot.

It's +2 STR, or +3 STR, -2 DEX in the hands slot.

It's +1 to melee to hit, minus the ability to see invisible creatures in the Lenses slot.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Amulet of Alfheim - Neck - All
+2 STR, +3 CON

That’s basically UR level
I personally think it’s too strong for a rare
Maybe as a transmute it would be fine

What do you think the gap between R and UR should be in the neck slot ought to be?

It's +1/+1 for pretty much every weapon.

It's +1 STR, or +2 STR/-1 DEX, or +2 AC, or +1 STR, -1 DEX, +2 AC in the waist slot.

It's +2 STR, or +3 STR, -2 DEX in the hands slot.

It's +1 to melee to hit, minus the ability to see invisible creatures in the Lenses slot.

Amulet of the the hero is on the high side of what I think should be allowed.
The token proposed is very close to amulet of champions
It’s a charm necklace with this years UR volunteer charm and 2020s UR and Rare volunteer charms equipped.

It’s better then fast fitnesses.

+2 STR and +1 CON would be ok I think at Rare.
Transmute up to what you are proposing for a mid range transmute seems reasonable

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Amulet of Alfheim - Neck - All
+2 STR, +3 CON

That’s basically UR level
I personally think it’s too strong for a rare
Maybe as a transmute it would be fine

What do you think the gap between R and UR should be in the neck slot ought to be?

It's +1/+1 for pretty much every weapon.

It's +1 STR, or +2 STR/-1 DEX, or +2 AC, or +1 STR, -1 DEX, +2 AC in the waist slot.

It's +2 STR, or +3 STR, -2 DEX in the hands slot.

It's +1 to melee to hit, minus the ability to see invisible creatures in the Lenses slot.

Amulet of the the hero is on the high side of what I think should be allowed.
The token proposed is very close to amulet of champions
It’s a charm necklace with this years UR volunteer charm and 2020s UR and Rare volunteer charms equipped.

It’s better then fast fitnesses.

+2 STR and +1 CON would be ok I think at Rare.
Transmute up to what you are proposing for a mid range transmute seems reasonable

I think Charm Necklace and Charm Beacelets make it clear that neck is more powerful than wrists - so I’ve got no problem with a rare neck being better than a ur wrist in principle.

Or just compare Medallion of Valhalla with Bracers of Fast fitness directly: both ur, but one gives +7 net stats and one gives +4 - and the one that +7 gives the more desirable str stat.

If a rare neck slot item can’t be better than BoFF then there will always be a pretty huge gap between Rare and UR neck compared to other slots.

That’s ok - I just think as we’re power creeping URs to the moon we should be keeping rares around +1 or +2 to a stat behind urs.
Goodness - back in the day the difference between a rare and ur waist slot was +1 str!

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: This is only +1/+1 lower than the UR, medallion of Valhalla.

Definitely a huge advance over the Necklace of the Oak (granted this is a much older token)

I'm wondering if maybe this should be a transmute, along the lines of Belt of Ogre Mage Power?

I think that's about right for Rare to UR, compare:

Rare:
- Belt of Ogre Power: +2 STR
- Belt of the Berserker: +3 STR, -2 AC

UR:
- Girdle of Hill Giant Strength: +3 STR
- Girdle of Stone Giant Strength: +4 STR, -1 DEX


Looks like in the waist slot, moving from UR to Rare costs you:

-1 STR, or
-2 AC, or
-2 STR, +1 DEX, or
-1 STR, +1 DEX, -2 AC

depending on which points you compare from.

So I feel -1 STR, -1 CON to move from a neck UR to a rare seems about right.

Following the various differences formulas from the belts would give one of these at rare based off Medallion of Valhalla, and in my estimation my proposal is not particularly better than any of these:

+2 STR, +4 CON
+3 STR, +4 CON, -2 AC
+1 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON
+2 STR, +1 DEX, +4 CON, -2 AC

I realize I wasnt much better using necklace of the oak, but girdle of hill giant strength has been fully eclipsed by belt of ogre mage power as a transmute.

You reasoning is otherwise sound.
I could see +2 Str and +2 Con. I don't feel the token needs the additional Con to see play for melee types at the rare level. I daresay it would be the immediate go to for that level.
Tokendb lists 15 rare neck slot items. This token is definitely better than all of them, though Amulet of the Hero could be argued.

Also, there is a dearth of viable neck slot items at rare for melee types.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Also, there is a dearth of viable neck slot items at rare for melee types.

Understatement of the thread!

I looked at the neck slot very carefully when making all the starter character threads, the options are honestly 2 uncommons - Do you want Necklace of the Birch for +1 Str, or Amulet of Nature's Lore so you can equip Gauntlets of the Midgard Serpent. Almost every other slot around is at least as good, if not outright better than the neck slot at Rare and under. At the very, very minimum, we should be looking at +4 stat boosters in Neck slot, but +5 wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, as already pointed out.

Potion Ammo Alteration - Potion - All
You may use any kind of ammo with your ranged weapon

Potion Quickdraw - Potion - All
You may use 2 wands as a standard action
(TDb note - you must be eligible to use the wands in question, you may use 1 wand twice, or two wands, the potion handles any wand hand swapping as needed)

Potion Swirling Colors - Potion - All
Choose one: either cure 4 pts, or duplicate any 2007-2020 common or uncommon potion

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Ammo Alteration - Potion - All
You may use any kind of ammo with your ranged weapon

Potion Quickdraw - Potion - All
You may use 2 wands as a standard action
(TDb note - you must be eligible to use the wands in question, you may use 1 wand twice, or two wands, the potion handles any wand hand swapping as needed)

Potion Swirling Colors - Potion - All
Choose one: either cure 4 pts, or duplicate any 2007-2020 common or uncommon potion

Just to clarify Ammo Alteration doesn't let you use multiple just use a sling with a bow.

I don't know about Swiling Colors. I know cheaters are going to cheat and there is nothing we can do about this, but I don't like giving them additional ammo. "Here DM. I am drinking this as the 2008 Potion of Never Should have been made that makes -10 to all sources of damage." I don't expect DM's to know all common and uncommon potions (though that silly I invented I hope would be pretty obvious).

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Ammo Alteration - Potion - All
You may use any kind of ammo with your ranged weapon

Potion Quickdraw - Potion - All
You may use 2 wands as a standard action
(TDb note - you must be eligible to use the wands in question, you may use 1 wand twice, or two wands, the potion handles any wand hand swapping as needed)

Potion Swirling Colors - Potion - All
Choose one: either cure 4 pts, or duplicate any 2007-2020 common or uncommon potion

Just to clarify Ammo Alteration doesn't let you use multiple just use a sling with a bow.

I don't know about Swiling Colors. I know cheaters are going to cheat and there is nothing we can do about this, but I don't like giving them additional ammo. "Here DM. I am drinking this as the 2008 Potion of Never Should have been made that makes -10 to all sources of damage." I don't expect DM's to know all common and uncommon potions (though that silly I invented I hope would be pretty obvious).

Swirling Colors would need to exclude all Potion of Polymorphs