TOPIC: Almost Final Ultra Rare Token Images! Please give these your look-see!

Hi Jeff and Druegar,

Most of the URs look good to go, here are a few comments.

I think the charm and Ioun Stone slots are capped too high, but I discussed that in the notes section.

I think the Bracers of Reckless Fury, combined with the Legendary token damage, is excessive. As much as I'd love to outfit this token as is, perhaps +4 damage is better, that's twice the rare level damage.

For consistency, should the charm of brooching and charm of glory have similar wording to the other slot expanders? Like, "May equip up to one additional Ring with a limit of 3 max"

Is there any chance of adding bonus polymorph damage to the Ioun Stone Banshee Prism. There isn't much polymorph love in this set.

Ring of the Drake: Is there any chance Shurikens can gain returning ability for everyone? The Monks would still be the only class that can throw two. That would help add some balance to the other classes with the powerful Monk class.

Has it been clarified whether you can still carry unique UR Teeth with the Skull of the Semi Lich once you have the Transmuted tooth?

Taborlin's Key - I still think this should go back to +3 healing, which is equivalent to the uncommon Linked Shirt of Healing.

Thanks!
Mike

Raven wrote: Re: Lenses of Seer Sight

I agree with the many voiced comments that this token is strictly better than Lenses of Vital Insight. With all the conversation around Power Creep, it surprises me that they were not toned down, but I thought, “okay, maybe it’s supposed to be better to drive sales.” ... and then I saw Jeff’s comment that he would allow a trade-in... so that’s clearly not it. It’s just a reprint with a little extra to make it not an exact duplicate.

What if it had a small drawback to offset the bonus Dex?

Like “Rogue May sneak attack with Bows” (Instead of “Ranged Weapon”)

That gives it flavour which Vital Insight doesn’t have, and forces a choice for those Rogues who use daggers or hammers or crossbows... AND leaves design space for making a cool Lenses token down the road which adds Ranged Sneak to a different weapon type.

Not a fan of a huge drawback like that. I say huge because as a newer player we picked up a a stunning crossbow for my wife’s rogue. Now I can’t get her the lens without buying another older UR. Also makes assassins crossbow not a goal to obtain.

Maybe crossbows only

Flik wrote:

Raven wrote: Re: Lenses of Seer Sight

I agree with the many voiced comments that this token is strictly better than Lenses of Vital Insight. With all the conversation around Power Creep, it surprises me that they were not toned down, but I thought, “okay, maybe it’s supposed to be better to drive sales.” ... and then I saw Jeff’s comment that he would allow a trade-in... so that’s clearly not it. It’s just a reprint with a little extra to make it not an exact duplicate.

What if it had a small drawback to offset the bonus Dex?

Like “Rogue May sneak attack with Bows” (Instead of “Ranged Weapon”)

That gives it flavour which Vital Insight doesn’t have, and forces a choice for those Rogues who use daggers or hammers or crossbows... AND leaves design space for making a cool Lenses token down the road which adds Ranged Sneak to a different weapon type.

Not a fan of a huge drawback like that. I say huge because as a newer player we picked up a a stunning crossbow for my wife’s rogue. Now I can’t get her the lens without buying another older UR. Also makes assassins crossbow not a goal to obtain.

Maybe crossbows only

Raven, I like your suggestion, if a drawback is added so that it's different but not strictly better, people who already have Lenses of Vital Strike won't feel so bad, and a trade in won't be needed.

Mike Steele wrote: I think the Bracers of Reckless Fury, combined with the Legendary token damage, is excessive. As much as I'd love to outfit this token as is, perhaps +4 damage is better, that's twice the rare level damage.

FYI, +6 is essentially the lowest that it can be to be useful without being outclassed by suitcase players. If this becomes +4 to 2H damage, I recommend the following for all Barbarians from this set:

Buy Charm Bracelets (or arcane earcuff) instead of Bracers of Reckless Fury
Use extra charm slots to slot in Charm of Glory and Dracolitch charm or Greater Onyx Charm
Use extra Ring slot granted by Charm of Glory to fit Ring of Brilliance

Wrist slot now gives +5 damage

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think the Bracers of Reckless Fury, combined with the Legendary token damage, is excessive. As much as I'd love to outfit this token as is, perhaps +4 damage is better, that's twice the rare level damage.

FYI, +6 is essentially the lowest that it can be to be useful without being outclassed by suitcase players. If this becomes +4 to 2H damage, I recommend the following for all Barbarians from this set:

Buy Charm Bracelets (or arcane earcuff) instead of Bracers of Reckless Fury
Use extra charm slots to slot in Charm of Glory and Dracolitch charm or Greater Onyx Charm
Use extra Ring slot granted by Charm of Glory to fit Ring of Brilliance

Wrist slot now gives +5 damage

That's assuming suitcase players weren't already using those charms and ring, which they probably were. And using those charms and rings bumps other charms and rings from being used.

Plus, maybe it's OK if a single UR is slightly overpowered by a slot expander, another UR, and an overpowered Rare. I'd recommend +4 damage and no negative AC.

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think the Bracers of Reckless Fury, combined with the Legendary token damage, is excessive. As much as I'd love to outfit this token as is, perhaps +4 damage is better, that's twice the rare level damage.

FYI, +6 is essentially the lowest that it can be to be useful without being outclassed by suitcase players. If this becomes +4 to 2H damage, I recommend the following for all Barbarians from this set:

Buy Charm Bracelets (or arcane earcuff) instead of Bracers of Reckless Fury
Use extra charm slots to slot in Charm of Glory and Dracolitch charm or Greater Onyx Charm
Use extra Ring slot granted by Charm of Glory to fit Ring of Brilliance

Wrist slot now gives +5 damage

That's assuming suitcase players weren't already using those charms and ring, which they probably were. And using those charms and rings bumps other charms and rings from being used.

Plus, maybe it's OK if a single UR is slightly overpowered by a slot expander, another UR, and an overpowered Rare. I'd recommend +4 damage and no negative AC.

I dislike that slot expanders tend to be the default best option. I would rather see the items competing with the slot at least be competitive.

Maybe I need to start a new thread on assumed builds at UR and Relic+, because people keep referring to tokens that I'm adding that are already in their builds.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I think the Bracers of Reckless Fury, combined with the Legendary token damage, is excessive. As much as I'd love to outfit this token as is, perhaps +4 damage is better, that's twice the rare level damage.

FYI, +6 is essentially the lowest that it can be to be useful without being outclassed by suitcase players. If this becomes +4 to 2H damage, I recommend the following for all Barbarians from this set:

Buy Charm Bracelets (or arcane earcuff) instead of Bracers of Reckless Fury
Use extra charm slots to slot in Charm of Glory and Dracolitch charm or Greater Onyx Charm
Use extra Ring slot granted by Charm of Glory to fit Ring of Brilliance

Wrist slot now gives +5 damage

That's assuming suitcase players weren't already using those charms and ring, which they probably were. And using those charms and rings bumps other charms and rings from being used.

Plus, maybe it's OK if a single UR is slightly overpowered by a slot expander, another UR, and an overpowered Rare. I'd recommend +4 damage and no negative AC.

I dislike that slot expanders tend to be the default best option. I would rather see the items competing with the slot at least be competitive.

Maybe I need to start a new thread on assumed builds at UR and Relic+, because people keep referring to tokens that I'm adding that are already in their builds.

I agree, I hope we don't start basing the power level of a UR on what a slot expander and the bonus tokens it lets you outfit can do.

I don’t think we should print the max number of slots in the tokens. (I am ok with the proposed adding of caps, however). It is an overall game rule and the caps are reminder text as it stands. It is possible that in the future we might need to further change the max in any particular slot, and that will be easier if they are not printed on the token itself. Even if no changes are planned, I like the idea of keeping game rules off of the tokens at higher rarities.

Chris Wiemer wrote: I don’t think we should print the max number of slots in the tokens. (I am ok with the proposed adding of caps, however). It is an overall game rule and the caps are reminder text as it stands. It is possible that in the future we might need to further change the max in any particular slot, and that will be easier if they are not printed on the token itself. Even if no changes are planned, I like the idea of keeping game rules off of the tokens at higher rarities.

Agreed.

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Allen John wrote: I...I still want the hat...

...I probably shouldn't say that, though, since I don't want to convince Jeff that it's okay to listen to everyone else when they say "new" players don't need nice things.

(Seriously, though, blocking two Stones is *way* less of a drawback than blocking a ring *and* giving -1 to saves. +1 to saves is my best Stone, and this is only asking me to give up my fourth-best.)

I think most of us want 5he hat to go back to a 4 IS max, rather than 3

I'm fine with it at 3, I think the target audience for this probably doesn't have four great IS. I suspect the change was made to make it more equal to similar previous tokens, so people that just got those other tokens don't have huge buyer's remorse.

You have to think about newbies, the stones they have don’t have to be great but they want to equip each and everyone of them. It doesn’t matter whether their common, uncommon, rare or whatever. I see it in the coaching rooms they want to have something on every slot

Chris Wiemer wrote: I don’t think we should print the max number of slots in the tokens. (I am ok with the proposed adding of caps, however). It is an overall game rule and the caps are reminder text as it stands. It is possible that in the future we might need to further change the max in any particular slot, and that will be easier if they are not printed on the token itself. Even if no changes are planned, I like the idea of keeping game rules off of the tokens at higher rarities.

If you don't print it on the tokens then you can get a case where someone shows up with 3 slot expanders and say, "Wait why can't I use all my 12 slots?". I agree it sets a value in stone but it avoids confusion.

Ed

Bob Chasan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Allen John wrote: I...I still want the hat...

...I probably shouldn't say that, though, since I don't want to convince Jeff that it's okay to listen to everyone else when they say "new" players don't need nice things.

(Seriously, though, blocking two Stones is *way* less of a drawback than blocking a ring *and* giving -1 to saves. +1 to saves is my best Stone, and this is only asking me to give up my fourth-best.)

I think most of us want 5he hat to go back to a 4 IS max, rather than 3

I'm fine with it at 3, I think the target audience for this probably doesn't have four great IS. I suspect the change was made to make it more equal to similar previous tokens, so people that just got those other tokens don't have huge buyer's remorse.

You have to think about newbies, the stones they have don’t have to be great but they want to equip each and everyone of them. It doesn’t matter whether their common, uncommon, rare or whatever. I see it in the coaching rooms they want to have something on every slot

I think this is designed specifically for newbies. I think any disappointment in not getting to use their fourth and fifth best stone is more than offset by the happiness of playing 5th level.