TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Images

Harlax wrote:

Andrew Haas wrote: It's late in the development process for this but I really want to point out that the Arcane Belt is way too good. It should just be +2 to Spell and Ranged damage not an effective +2 Focus and Draco-Lich Charm level effect.

Also, the Skull needs to be put into a slot along with a lot of the other slot-less power tokens like Kvothe's Bloodless. It will be a popular token but it won't stimulate demand for new Teeth like people are hoping, not unless its something like "+2 hp/tooth, max 4 teeth". +1hp/token is just not a big enough incentive to support the price of the newest teeth.

The Skull argument has been made during every iteration of development. It doesn’t appear likely to change.

I think it will be a nice bonus for those who only recently have begun making large orders. But only if is slotless.

If the combined teeth token also imbues psychic power, the Skull will have a very short useful life.

I think the skull is mainly aimed at players that can get some Teeth but not all of them. I think it's a really elegant way to recognize that there are a lot more of the later teeth than the earlier ones, and make it more worthwhile to still get as many as you can even if you can't get them all.

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the "functional re-print" but in another slot of the Amulet of Wonder. It would replace the +3 Rod of the Meek.

Jeff, I like the reprint, it's great to periodically give players access to this, and I think it did need the new slot. On a personal level it's neat to see the token I designed get new life.

The image looks a bit more like a hood than a Ring. Maybe it could be a bit more colorful too than standard UR purple? I'm sure whatever you go with will be great.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Andrew Haas wrote: It's late in the development process for this but I really want to point out that the Arcane Belt is way too good. It should just be +2 to Spell and Ranged damage not an effective +2 Focus and Draco-Lich Charm level effect.

Also, the Skull needs to be put into a slot along with a lot of the other slot-less power tokens like Kvothe's Bloodless. It will be a popular token but it won't stimulate demand for new Teeth like people are hoping, not unless its something like "+2 hp/tooth, max 4 teeth". +1hp/token is just not a big enough incentive to support the price of the newest teeth.

The Skull argument has been made during every iteration of development. It doesn’t appear likely to change.

I think it will be a nice bonus for those who only recently have begun making large orders. But only if is slotless.

If the combined teeth token also imbues psychic power, the Skull will have a very short useful life.

I think the skull is mainly aimed at players that can get some Teeth but not all of them. I think it's a really elegant way to recognize that there are a lot more of the later teeth than the earlier ones, and make it more worthwhile to still get as many as you can even if you can't get them all.

Jeff indicated in another thread that he was “99.9%” certain that the eldritch token from the combined teeth would imbue psychic in addition to unlocking all the tiers.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote: I would still like to know if the combined teeth Eldritch item will imbue psychic as well as grant all tiers. That has a direct impact on the utility of the Skull.

99.9% yes.

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Andrew Haas wrote: It's late in the development process for this but I really want to point out that the Arcane Belt is way too good. It should just be +2 to Spell and Ranged damage not an effective +2 Focus and Draco-Lich Charm level effect.

Also, the Skull needs to be put into a slot along with a lot of the other slot-less power tokens like Kvothe's Bloodless. It will be a popular token but it won't stimulate demand for new Teeth like people are hoping, not unless its something like "+2 hp/tooth, max 4 teeth". +1hp/token is just not a big enough incentive to support the price of the newest teeth.

The Skull argument has been made during every iteration of development. It doesn’t appear likely to change.

I think it will be a nice bonus for those who only recently have begun making large orders. But only if is slotless.

If the combined teeth token also imbues psychic power, the Skull will have a very short useful life.

I think the skull is mainly aimed at players that can get some Teeth but not all of them. I think it's a really elegant way to recognize that there are a lot more of the later teeth than the earlier ones, and make it more worthwhile to still get as many as you can even if you can't get them all.

Jeff indicated in another thread that he was “99.9%” certain that the eldritch token from the combined teeth would imbue psychic in addition to unlocking all the tiers.

I've always been sure that the Eldritch would unlock psychic, that's why I haven't bought any of the UR enablers. That just emphasizes the target audience for this is players that won't have all the teeth.

Unless Jeff says you can outfit individual teeth along with the transmute. Then someone could have the Eldritch token, and up to 7 teeth to gain some free slotless HP.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the "functional re-print" but in another slot of the Amulet of Wonder. It would replace the +3 Rod of the Meek.

So, what happens if you equip the Ring AND the Amulet?

Nothing special I suppose. The effects are identical, so the same as wearing one.

I feel like it could be made more clear that this ring and the amulet of wonder are inherently linked to be the same effect forever.

Because, if they are not permanently linked, i need at least one of these rings. If they are linked (and cannot stack), i obviously have no use for any of these.

Oh, and i do think it is a cool item, great idea. And i like the picture, but maybe turn it a bit to see all the way through just a little, to appease mike by making it clearly not a hood

Lastly, i understand why it hasnt been used recently, but i would be totally happy with die rolls returning, because... Hail Eris!

From a coaching standpoint, the die roll was fun, but could really chew up coaching time.

Then there was the year the die was misprinted and one of the sides had an incorrect face.

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the "functional re-print" but in another slot of the Amulet of Wonder. It would replace the +3 Rod of the Meek.

So, what happens if you equip the Ring AND the Amulet?

Nothing special I suppose. The effects are identical, so the same as wearing one.

I feel like it could be made more clear that this ring and the amulet of wonder are inherently linked to be the same effect forever.

Because, if they are not permanently linked, i need at least one of these rings. If they are linked (and cannot stack), i obviously have no use for any of these.

Oh, and i do think it is a cool item, great idea. And i like the picture, but maybe turn it a bit to see all the way through just a little, to appease mike by making it clearly not a hood

Lastly, i understand why it hasnt been used recently, but i would be totally happy with die rolls returning, because... Hail Eris!

It seems like Jeff just made it Crystal clear they're permanently linked, they both give the identical effect. Do you mean the token text should state it?

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the "functional re-print" but in another slot of the Amulet of Wonder. It would replace the +3 Rod of the Meek.

So, what happens if you equip the Ring AND the Amulet?

Nothing special I suppose. The effects are identical, so the same as wearing one.

I feel like it could be made more clear that this ring and the amulet of wonder are inherently linked to be the same effect forever.

Because, if they are not permanently linked, i need at least one of these rings. If they are linked (and cannot stack), i obviously have no use for any of these.

Oh, and i do think it is a cool item, great idea. And i like the picture, but maybe turn it a bit to see all the way through just a little, to appease mike by making it clearly not a hood

Lastly, i understand why it hasnt been used recently, but i would be totally happy with die rolls returning, because... Hail Eris!

It seems like Jeff just made it Crystal clear they're permanently linked, they both give the identical effect, and wearing both is the same as wearing one. Do you mean the token text should state it?

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Hi Jeff,

Thanks for adding +1 Mighty Shortbow.

Wouldn't Charms of Glory and Brooching be more consistent if they had wording like "May Equip up to one additional Back Slot item" for Brooching and "May equip up to one more Ring" for Glory?

Lenses of Agility: Making it +4 Dex and making it Bows and Crossbows is too much I think. +2 Dex and just Bows was fine.

The intent of Charm of Glory and Charmmof Brooching is to future proof them I believe.

I also think the goal.of the lenses is to have them go toe to toe with other eye slot items (LoVI, Sniper's, LotF, etc) while allowing for new players to be excited and give non-Thor's (and non-sling) wielding Rogues a reprint. I suppose it could be expanded to say "2handed ranged weapon" to include a blunder weapon.
If my assumptions regarding their goals are correct, they hit it perfectly.

But, they could future proof them just like they did with charms and Stones by capping the total amount allowed. It seems unnecessarily confusing to handle them in two different ways.

Except that is what the charm.of brooching actually says already.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Hi Jeff,

Thanks for adding +1 Mighty Shortbow.

Wouldn't Charms of Glory and Brooching be more consistent if they had wording like "May Equip up to one additional Back Slot item" for Brooching and "May equip up to one more Ring" for Glory?

Lenses of Agility: Making it +4 Dex and making it Bows and Crossbows is too much I think. +2 Dex and just Bows was fine.

The intent of Charm of Glory and Charmmof Brooching is to future proof them I believe.

I also think the goal.of the lenses is to have them go toe to toe with other eye slot items (LoVI, Sniper's, LotF, etc) while allowing for new players to be excited and give non-Thor's (and non-sling) wielding Rogues a reprint. I suppose it could be expanded to say "2handed ranged weapon" to include a blunder weapon.
If my assumptions regarding their goals are correct, they hit it perfectly.

But, they could future proof them just like they did with charms and Stones by capping the total amount allowed. It seems unnecessarily confusing to handle them in two different ways.

Except that is what the charm.of brooching actually says already.

I understand that - but we have two expander type tokens saying that on the token, and two saying that in (presumably) tokendb.com. I'm just saying it would be nice to have a consistent approach for all four, regardless of what that approach is.

I think the wording on Charms of Glory and Brooching would be better the other way as well, because the way they are worded it sounds like there is a hard cap on Rings at 3 and Back slot items at 2, but Jeff has said they haven't capped any slots at this point other than Charms and Ioun Stones. So, if they do in the future add another token giving another ring or back slot token, it will be tough for it to stack with these two given how they are worded.

Mike Steele wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Here is the "functional re-print" but in another slot of the Amulet of Wonder. It would replace the +3 Rod of the Meek.

So, what happens if you equip the Ring AND the Amulet?

Nothing special I suppose. The effects are identical, so the same as wearing one.

I feel like it could be made more clear that this ring and the amulet of wonder are inherently linked to be the same effect forever.

Because, if they are not permanently linked, i need at least one of these rings. If they are linked (and cannot stack), i obviously have no use for any of these.

Oh, and i do think it is a cool item, great idea. And i like the picture, but maybe turn it a bit to see all the way through just a little, to appease mike by making it clearly not a hood

Lastly, i understand why it hasnt been used recently, but i would be totally happy with die rolls returning, because... Hail Eris!

It seems like Jeff just made it Crystal clear they're permanently linked, they both give the identical effect, and wearing both is the same as wearing one. Do you mean the token text should state it?

I guess so. I mean, i know it isnt necessary, and jeffs intention is clear. But the token itself isnt 100% clear. For example, lets say TD printed a belt of expertise, that had the same text as the hat; would anyone assume you cant wear both and use the effect twice? Or how about a couple rares, ring and crown, that both give +4 will saves...do those stack?

Maybe the ring text could be: same different cool effect each year as Amulet of Wonder.

It could be shortened to 'counts as amulet of wonder', but then players have to ask/look up what the amulet does.

Raven wrote: I don't think that anything has been obsoleted here.
For non-Rogues, Lenses of the Fae is still better (particularly if you're at an odd Dex.) Don't discount the 50% miss irritation until you've gone up against incorporeal monsters!

For Rogues, this is clearly better than the Lenses of Vital Insight *only if* you use a bow or crossbow. But (as some folks so kindly pointed out to me recently!) not every Rogue has access to a bow/crossbow. Some haven't bought one (yet - this may incentivize their purchase) and others put enough resources into their Relic/Legend Hammer that they're not going to switch. It's definitely not a given.

Not to mention that this leaves room for some cool items in the future like Ranged Sneak Throwing Daggers or a cool Blunder Weapon (which adds accuracy for a Sniper Rogue build?)

I almost always are in lock step with you Raven but in this case I am in disagreement. What we have is the following powers:

+4 DEX (little less than UR - Transmute 4 Star - Exalted Creeper Necklace)
Ignore 50% incorporeal miss chance (Rare Level - Bead Whole Vision)
Sneak attack with a Ranged Weapon (UR Level - LoVI)
Sneak attack with Bows & Crossbows (little lower than UR Level somewhat like a Transmute - 4 Star)

So adding two Transmute Four Stars together is clearly better than an UR.

My suggestion is I think it was good at +2 and it should stay there. Because Sneak attack with both Bows and Crossbows is clearly better than a Rare level Bead of Whole Vision.

Ed