TOPIC: Time to start the 2021 Token dev process

Picc wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Another problem is every new slot needs at least a token In each years set somewhere.

I'm not sure if I agree with that logic.

While I agree with you Picc, I do think that it is reasonable to want to put a token in every slot in every year's set. Certainly during token design. there are examples of "we don't have any tokens for slot X, let's adjust this token to slot X if possible." This was how we got bracers of guided strike for example.

Whether we should do so or not, there are those who feel that way.

Picc wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Please, no new slots unless they restrict currently slotless items

It seems inevitable that there will be a new slot every year or two, that's just the way it's going. It's a way to add new tokens without obsoleting existing ones.

Please no, no more beyond the tome slot. The number of slots is already an issue / deterrent for new players imo. No reason to make it worse

The biggest issue I encounter with new players around slots is anxiety that they aren’t filling every slot on the mat.

Another problem is every new slot needs at least a token In each years set somewhere.

I'm not sure if I agree with that logic.

My personal preference (not saying it "should" be this way, just what I'd like to see) actually takes it a step further than Wayne.

With an exception for greaves (since they are treasure-box only), I'd like to see every slot represented at Common, Uncommon, and Rare every year. And then at the UR level every other year. While we're at it, I'd love to see transmutes to fill in the holes of slots not yet represented at each transmute level before we toss more in the slots that are already represented.

I guess I don't know who's dealing with this "we don't have something for everything" problem.

It can't really be true rookies - if they're only going with their one 10-pack. If it is true rookies, then even having only 10 slots - or even 6 slots - will leave that problem happening.

Solutions:

1) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to display "basic" versions of each token slot, that provide no statistical benefit or a small benefit (maybe that combine to equate to the default armor, or if a certain number aren't covered, provide a single-use dodge of one attack, etc). If you have tokens, they would be placed on top of the default/basic "token" that's part of the mat.

2) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to be 2-sided, with the regular side on one side, and a "basic" version on the other side with only "Core" slots (weapons, armor, head, legs, shoes, for example, maybe 1 ring slot, 1 charm, etc) that are covered in each year's tokens, perhaps a special bonus is given for using the "basic" side vs the regular side.

This would still leave some people with 10-packs short of the odd slot, but it would be easier to get full, and there would maybe be a boost to those who only have their first pack ever.

3) (Low/Moderate Cost): TD and/or independent sellers provide "basic" token sets that fill each slot at an approachable cost. These would be either made up of multiple years, or be non-year tokens specially for this purpose.

The problem here is that most Commons offer too many situational, non-party-card benefits, and with every slot, would be too much for new players to keep track of.

The ideal situation would be for the token to be either one big set, providing a combined Party Card bonus, or for each token (besides, say, the armor, and one or two others in high-demand slots) to just be a +1 hp or similar small permanent bonus.


If the people who are struggling to fill each token slot are newer players starting to collect, who have already played, I think the trick is for there to be a Common for each slot every year at minimum, or for there to be non-year tokens for slots that aren't in every year (maybe in special 10-token packs to fill out those rarer slots?) though generally I think it's pretty easy to fill out cheaply if you know about the secondary merchants out there.

Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

Having coached for 7 years, sometimes at multiple conventions per year, I can tell you that this happens.


I do agree that too many commons are entirely situational

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

Having coached for 7 years, sometimes at multiple conventions per year, I can tell you that this happens.


I do agree that too many commons are entirely situational

It seems like they will have that happen regardless of whether more slots are added or not. There are already enough slots that many will be unfilled from opening 10 packs. I don't even have all the slots filled for my whole group, and I've got a LOT of tokens.

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

Having coached for 7 years, sometimes at multiple conventions per year, I can tell you that this happens.


I do agree that too many commons are entirely situational

It seems like they will have that happen regardless of whether more slots are added or not. There are already enough slots that many will be unfilled from opening 10 packs. I don't even have all the slots filled for my whole group, and I've got a LOT of tokens.

I don’t disagree. In fact some people who manage to fill most or all of the slots wind up with a big stack of tokens and the comment “these are situational and may or may not come into play.”

Harlax wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

Having coached for 7 years, sometimes at multiple conventions per year, I can tell you that this happens.


I do agree that too many commons are entirely situational

It seems like they will have that happen regardless of whether more slots are added or not. There are already enough slots that many will be unfilled from opening 10 packs. I don't even have all the slots filled for my whole group, and I've got a LOT of tokens.

I don’t disagree. In fact some people who manage to fill most or all of the slots wind up with a big stack of tokens and the comment “these are situational and may or may not come into play.”

I just figure I (or more likely my friend) have to carry all the tokens for the entire group in a backpack through the whole Dungeon, so a token has to be worth it's weight in order to make the cut. Along the same lines, I bring very few consumable tokens - Potion Death's Door and Scroll Stone to Flesh are probably the two must-haves.

I’ll make my now-annual pitch for a Dex-based equivalent of the Medallion of Valhalla (+3 Str & +4 Con). Not sure what to call it, but a UR with +3 Dex and +4 Con would be an option for a Bard (class-specific legendary is an instrument) and for ranged-style players who aren’t going for the relic/legendary class-specific neck slot items. It would be a straight upgrade from the Enhanced Creeper Amulet (+2 Dex) and present a choice (-1 Dex for +4 Con) compared to the Exalted Creeper Amulet (+4 Dex).

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

If only they would read the text at the top of the token mat... Specifically the part that says, "You do not need to cover all your circles--most players do not."

Druegar wrote:

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

If only they would read the text at the top of the token mat... Specifically the part that says, "You do not need to cover all your circles--most players do not."

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You and I both know how much people read that kind of stuff. When I point out the FAQ sheets typically one (and only one) person glances at it for about 5 seconds and then sets it aside, never to be seen again.

Fiddy wrote:

Picc wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Harlax wrote: Please, no new slots unless they restrict currently slotless items

It seems inevitable that there will be a new slot every year or two, that's just the way it's going. It's a way to add new tokens without obsoleting existing ones.

Please no, no more beyond the tome slot. The number of slots is already an issue / deterrent for new players imo. No reason to make it worse

The biggest issue I encounter with new players around slots is anxiety that they aren’t filling every slot on the mat.

Another problem is every new slot needs at least a token In each years set somewhere.

I'm not sure if I agree with that logic.

My personal preference (not saying it "should" be this way, just what I'd like to see) actually takes it a step further than Wayne.

With an exception for greaves (since they are treasure-box only), I'd like to see every slot represented at Common, Uncommon, and Rare every year. And then at the UR level every other year. While we're at it, I'd love to see transmutes to fill in the holes of slots not yet represented at each transmute level before we toss more in the slots that are already represented.

I guess my main thought is a new player that buys a $250 pack should be able to fill all there slots except greaves out of the 30 packs, and it would be better if all slots could be filled for a small group off the same 30 packs knowing many tokens will be commons.

Harlax wrote: You and I both know how much people read that kind of stuff.

all too well ...