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TOPIC: Time to start the 2021 Token dev process

Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #253

Harlax wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Harlax wrote: Yes, there are new players playing out of 10 packs who are anxious that they cannot fill all the spaces.

If only they would read the text at the top of the token mat... Specifically the part that says, "You do not need to cover all your circles--most players do not."

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You and I both know how much people read that kind of stuff. When I point out the FAQ sheets typically one (and only one) person glances at it for about 5 seconds and then sets it aside, never to be seen again.


Wait... there's text at the top?


More seriously though, in the not-so-awesome lighting of the coaching rooms, your eyes get drawn to the circles rather than that text at the top. When it comes time to reprint those, consider putting the text inside a lighter colored box, and maybe bold that last sentence.

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #254

Singsalot wrote: I guess I don't know who's dealing with this "we don't have something for everything" problem.

It can't really be true rookies - if they're only going with their one 10-pack. If it is true rookies, then even having only 10 slots - or even 6 slots - will leave that problem happening.

Solutions:

1) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to display "basic" versions of each token slot, that provide no statistical benefit or a small benefit (maybe that combine to equate to the default armor, or if a certain number aren't covered, provide a single-use dodge of one attack, etc). If you have tokens, they would be placed on top of the default/basic "token" that's part of the mat.

2) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to be 2-sided, with the regular side on one side, and a "basic" version on the other side with only "Core" slots (weapons, armor, head, legs, shoes, for example, maybe 1 ring slot, 1 charm, etc) that are covered in each year's tokens, perhaps a special bonus is given for using the "basic" side vs the regular side.

This would still leave some people with 10-packs short of the odd slot, but it would be easier to get full, and there would maybe be a boost to those who only have their first pack ever.

3) (Low/Moderate Cost): TD and/or independent sellers provide "basic" token sets that fill each slot at an approachable cost. These would be either made up of multiple years, or be non-year tokens specially for this purpose.

The problem here is that most Commons offer too many situational, non-party-card benefits, and with every slot, would be too much for new players to keep track of.

The ideal situation would be for the token to be either one big set, providing a combined Party Card bonus, or for each token (besides, say, the armor, and one or two others in high-demand slots) to just be a +1 hp or similar small permanent bonus.


If the people who are struggling to fill each token slot are newer players starting to collect, who have already played, I think the trick is for there to be a Common for each slot every year at minimum, or for there to be non-year tokens for slots that aren't in every year (maybe in special 10-token packs to fill out those rarer slots?) though generally I think it's pretty easy to fill out cheaply if you know about the secondary merchants out there.


I really like the idea of the token mat having a "basic" side that is really just the most fundamental things. I recommend coaches automatically give out common weapons or armor to anyone who doesn't get those in their 10 pack (often it seems to only happen when someone asks).

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #255

Thinking about it, the "Basic" side would let the player recover from death once, to 1 hp, no matter how many tokens were used.

The slots could be:
Head
Neck
Armor
Ring
Legs
Boots

or just Armor & 4 or 6 non-specific slots

and for each one unused, the player gets +1 starting hp
I came here to sing and collect tokens, and I'm alllll out of money.

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #256

Fred K wrote:

Singsalot wrote: I guess I don't know who's dealing with this "we don't have something for everything" problem.

It can't really be true rookies - if they're only going with their one 10-pack. If it is true rookies, then even having only 10 slots - or even 6 slots - will leave that problem happening.

Solutions:

1) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to display "basic" versions of each token slot, that provide no statistical benefit or a small benefit (maybe that combine to equate to the default armor, or if a certain number aren't covered, provide a single-use dodge of one attack, etc). If you have tokens, they would be placed on top of the default/basic "token" that's part of the mat.

2) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to be 2-sided, with the regular side on one side, and a "basic" version on the other side with only "Core" slots (weapons, armor, head, legs, shoes, for example, maybe 1 ring slot, 1 charm, etc) that are covered in each year's tokens, perhaps a special bonus is given for using the "basic" side vs the regular side.

This would still leave some people with 10-packs short of the odd slot, but it would be easier to get full, and there would maybe be a boost to those who only have their first pack ever.

3) (Low/Moderate Cost): TD and/or independent sellers provide "basic" token sets that fill each slot at an approachable cost. These would be either made up of multiple years, or be non-year tokens specially for this purpose.

The problem here is that most Commons offer too many situational, non-party-card benefits, and with every slot, would be too much for new players to keep track of.

The ideal situation would be for the token to be either one big set, providing a combined Party Card bonus, or for each token (besides, say, the armor, and one or two others in high-demand slots) to just be a +1 hp or similar small permanent bonus.


If the people who are struggling to fill each token slot are newer players starting to collect, who have already played, I think the trick is for there to be a Common for each slot every year at minimum, or for there to be non-year tokens for slots that aren't in every year (maybe in special 10-token packs to fill out those rarer slots?) though generally I think it's pretty easy to fill out cheaply if you know about the secondary merchants out there.


I really like the idea of the token mat having a "basic" side that is really just the most fundamental things. I recommend coaches automatically give out common weapons or armor to anyone who doesn't get those in their 10 pack (often it seems to only happen when someone asks).

Fred


Maybe first encourage the group to swap the tokens from their 10 packs around to try to get everyone outfitted as well as possible. That's a nice opening team building exercise. :)

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #257

Fred K wrote: . I recommend coaches automatically give out common weapons or armor to anyone who doesn't get those in their 10 pack (often it seems to only happen when someone asks).

Fred


Again, coaches have a stash of common weapons. I usually keep a pocket full of them so I don't have to dash back to the supply room when someone needs one (or two in the case of rangers)

Armor has a default value for each class in the event a player doesn't get an armor or can't trade for one.No one has to ask, we just record it.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Last edit: by Harlax.

Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #258

Singsalot wrote: Thinking about it, the "Basic" side would let the player recover from death once, to 1 hp, no matter how many tokens were used.

The slots could be:
Head
Neck
Armor
Ring
Legs
Boots

or just Armor & 4 or 6 non-specific slots

and for each one unused, the player gets +1 starting hp


The extra hp for every slot unused is a GREAT idea even with the current mats unchanged (or maybe +1 hp for every 2 slots unused). That would solve the problem of newer players worrying about not having everything filled.

I'd say let someone come back from death with 1 hp have a limit of one person per party per run. Otherwise, we risk death not being as important to them.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #259

Harlax wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Singsalot wrote: I guess I don't know who's dealing with this "we don't have something for everything" problem.

It can't really be true rookies - if they're only going with their one 10-pack. If it is true rookies, then even having only 10 slots - or even 6 slots - will leave that problem happening.

Solutions:

1) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to display "basic" versions of each token slot, that provide no statistical benefit or a small benefit (maybe that combine to equate to the default armor, or if a certain number aren't covered, provide a single-use dodge of one attack, etc). If you have tokens, they would be placed on top of the default/basic "token" that's part of the mat.

2) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to be 2-sided, with the regular side on one side, and a "basic" version on the other side with only "Core" slots (weapons, armor, head, legs, shoes, for example, maybe 1 ring slot, 1 charm, etc) that are covered in each year's tokens, perhaps a special bonus is given for using the "basic" side vs the regular side.

This would still leave some people with 10-packs short of the odd slot, but it would be easier to get full, and there would maybe be a boost to those who only have their first pack ever.

3) (Low/Moderate Cost): TD and/or independent sellers provide "basic" token sets that fill each slot at an approachable cost. These would be either made up of multiple years, or be non-year tokens specially for this purpose.

The problem here is that most Commons offer too many situational, non-party-card benefits, and with every slot, would be too much for new players to keep track of.

The ideal situation would be for the token to be either one big set, providing a combined Party Card bonus, or for each token (besides, say, the armor, and one or two others in high-demand slots) to just be a +1 hp or similar small permanent bonus.


If the people who are struggling to fill each token slot are newer players starting to collect, who have already played, I think the trick is for there to be a Common for each slot every year at minimum, or for there to be non-year tokens for slots that aren't in every year (maybe in special 10-token packs to fill out those rarer slots?) though generally I think it's pretty easy to fill out cheaply if you know about the secondary merchants out there.


I really like the idea of the token mat having a "basic" side that is really just the most fundamental things. I recommend coaches automatically give out common weapons or armor to anyone who doesn't get those in their 10 pack (often it seems to only happen when someone asks).

Fred


Again, coaches have a stash of common weapons. I usually keep a pocket full of them so I don't have to dash back to the supply room when someone needs one (or two in the case of rangers)

Armor has a default value for each class in the event a player doesn't get an armor or can't trade for one.


I never knew there was a default armor value per class. I'm in year 7(?) and still learning :)

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #260

Next time you look at a party card, note the small faint number in the AC boxes. Those are the defaults.

Whenever we get to be in the same room as an actual party card again. :(
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #261

Singsalot wrote: Thinking about it, the "Basic" side would let the player recover from death once, to 1 hp, no matter how many tokens were used.

The slots could be:
Head
Neck
Armor
Ring
Legs
Boots

or just Armor & 4 or 6 non-specific slots

and for each one unused, the player gets +1 starting hp

The basic side should probably be similar to what you would see in DnD, so I don’t think pants would even make the cut. I would use hands instead.

Edit, I also really like the idea with using the basic side that you get +1 hp for each unused slot. Maybe the basic side could also have 1 bonus for each class (+2 Healing for cleric, +2 str for Fighter, +2 Spell damage for wizard, etc).

In general, after you had 4 or 5 boosters, you would probably want to use the advanced side, but the basic side would have some pretty nice reasons to use it.

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Last edit: by Endgame.

Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #262

Yeah, +1hp/slot is for basic - can't be for regular, as some Commons are +1hp so that would ruin them.
But there could be some bonus to unused slots for the regular, maybe 5 empty slots = +1 to a stat based on your class, or something.

So like Barbarian, 5 = +1 STR, 10 = +1 STR/+1 CON, 15 = +1 STR/+1 CON/+1 DEX
I came here to sing and collect tokens, and I'm alllll out of money.

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Last edit: by Singsalot.

Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #263

Fred K wrote:

Singsalot wrote: I guess I don't know who's dealing with this "we don't have something for everything" problem.

It can't really be true rookies - if they're only going with their one 10-pack. If it is true rookies, then even having only 10 slots - or even 6 slots - will leave that problem happening.

Solutions:

1) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to display "basic" versions of each token slot, that provide no statistical benefit or a small benefit (maybe that combine to equate to the default armor, or if a certain number aren't covered, provide a single-use dodge of one attack, etc). If you have tokens, they would be placed on top of the default/basic "token" that's part of the mat.

2) (Free/no extra cost): Remake the token mats to be 2-sided, with the regular side on one side, and a "basic" version on the other side with only "Core" slots (weapons, armor, head, legs, shoes, for example, maybe 1 ring slot, 1 charm, etc) that are covered in each year's tokens, perhaps a special bonus is given for using the "basic" side vs the regular side.

This would still leave some people with 10-packs short of the odd slot, but it would be easier to get full, and there would maybe be a boost to those who only have their first pack ever.

3) (Low/Moderate Cost): TD and/or independent sellers provide "basic" token sets that fill each slot at an approachable cost. These would be either made up of multiple years, or be non-year tokens specially for this purpose.

The problem here is that most Commons offer too many situational, non-party-card benefits, and with every slot, would be too much for new players to keep track of.

The ideal situation would be for the token to be either one big set, providing a combined Party Card bonus, or for each token (besides, say, the armor, and one or two others in high-demand slots) to just be a +1 hp or similar small permanent bonus.


If the people who are struggling to fill each token slot are newer players starting to collect, who have already played, I think the trick is for there to be a Common for each slot every year at minimum, or for there to be non-year tokens for slots that aren't in every year (maybe in special 10-token packs to fill out those rarer slots?) though generally I think it's pretty easy to fill out cheaply if you know about the secondary merchants out there.


I really like the idea of the token mat having a "basic" side that is really just the most fundamental things. I recommend coaches automatically give out common weapons or armor to anyone who doesn't get those in their 10 pack (often it seems to only happen when someone asks).

Fred


Fred,
Not sure which coaches you’re thinking of but we Always provide weapons. Nobody goes into the dungeon weapon less. As my esteemed colleague has already pointed out, generous starter armor classes are on the party card.
Please visit my fledgling token store.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247486

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Time to start the 2021 Token dev process 4 years 3 weeks ago #264

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The old coaching mats did used to be double sided. The current token mats are based off the simple side (and speaking from experience, it's better to have them stuck down).

Honestly if the mats are making people feel bad for not filling all the slots I wonder if we might not able better off just getting rid of them entirely. Advanced token havers usually dont make use of them anyway.
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