TOPIC: Time to start the 2021 Token dev process

Picc wrote: Honestly if the mats are making people feel bad for not filling all the slots I wonder if we might not able better off just getting rid of them entirely. Advanced token havers usually dont make use of them anyway.

I think newer players will still need them though, otherwise they will not know what slots exist or what tokens relate to which slot (for example, gloves/fingers/wrists).

How about printing some default minor bonuses (not just hp) on the mat itself, perhaps a default +2 AC in the torso slot, each charm slot providing +1hp, etc? That way newer players can have something in every slot but overlay them if they have better tokens.

Iross wrote:

Picc wrote: Honestly if the mats are making people feel bad for not filling all the slots I wonder if we might not able better off just getting rid of them entirely. Advanced token havers usually dont make use of them anyway.

I think newer players will still need them though, otherwise they will not know what slots exist or what tokens relate to which slot (for example, gloves/fingers/wrists).

Not sure I agree,the slots already confuse newbies just by virtue of the amount on info on the sheet already. Its amazing how many people try to equip armor in the shirt slot for example. Before we had the token mats people would just lay out what they wanted to use in front of them and ask if they could use these.

While I agree that the token mat increases the sense of doing something game related in coaching, more I think about it, the more I feel it does more harm then good. Minor issue either way though I guess.

Iross wrote: How about printing some default minor bonuses (not just hp) on the mat itself, perhaps a default +2 AC in the torso slot, each charm slot providing +1hp, etc? That way newer players can have something in every slot but overlay them if they have better tokens.

The issue there is that different classes have different gimmy values for armor. In a sense the gimmy values for armor are meant to represent virtual tokens. So if we printed them on the token mats we would need to set people by class or make them uniform, which takes away from class identity a bit.

We used to have a bucket of common armor tokens we could give out in addition to the weapons we have today but anything physical is subject to supply issues. The idea iof going virtual was if someone needs a gimmy value for their armor they dont need the token itself beyond the partycard being filled out so we can just gave the value at hand.

We are also told not to encourage the use of the gimmy values though as it takes away from people feeling good about equipping themselves.

I don’t recall being told to try to avoid using the gimme values.

I do encourage people to trade/loan/give tokens if I come to a player with no armor. Often that does the job, but it may still result in nothing better than the default.

As to the mat, I don’t think eliminating it is the answer.

I'm surprised that a lot of people get confused about which slots can be used for which tokens when they have the mat to help them - I'd have expected a small number but wasn't aware it was so common. I'd still be very wary of getting rid of the mat though, it may lead to having to constantly explain rules like:

• You can equip rings and gloves at the same time, and also you can have two rings but only one gloves.

• You can't equip a robe and armour at the same time but you can equip either with a cloak and a shirt.

• The eyes, head and neck slots are separate. Your cowl only uses the head slot.

Those are just a few examples, but I can imagine new players needing to take up a lot of the coach's time if there isn't anything in front of them to help them to equip tokens.

You have a point about different classes, my first thought would be having both default bonuses and also class-specific ones but then that's needlessly complicating things for the coach. Class-specific token mats may be an option, but you mentioned earlier that you prefer having them stuck down. So all I can really think of is that the current approach of having common tokens available works well along with lending between players, which doesn't really solve the issue of players being discouraged by not owning enough tokens to fill the slots.

As another reason to keep the mat I do think that it just feels good to a player to put their own tokens on it to make their own character, as well as encouraging them to maybe pick up a few extra tokens to fill some of the empty slots for next time they play.

Iross wrote: I'm surprised that a lot of people get confused about which slots can be used for which tokens when they have the mat to help them - I'd have expected a small number but wasn't aware it was so common. I'd still be very wary of getting rid of the mat though, it may lead to having to constantly explain rules like:

• You can equip rings and gloves at the same time, and also you can have two rings but only one gloves.

• You can't equip a robe and armour at the same time but you can equip either with a cloak and a shirt.

• The eyes, head and neck slots are separate. Your cowl only uses the head slot.

Those are just a few examples, but I can imagine new players needing to take up a lot of the coach's time if there isn't anything in front of them to help them to equip tokens.

You have a point about different classes, my first thought would be having both default bonuses and also class-specific ones but then that's needlessly complicating things for the coach. Class-specific token mats may be an option, but you mentioned earlier that you prefer having them stuck down. So all I can really think of is that the current approach of having common tokens available works well along with lending between players, which doesn't really solve the issue of players being discouraged by not owning enough tokens to fill the slots.

As another reason to keep the mat I do think that it just feels good to a player to put their own tokens on it to make their own character, as well as encouraging them to maybe pick up a few extra tokens to fill some of the empty slots for next time they play.

It’s surprising how often you see a wand in the weapon slot on the sheet. Just saying

We are no longer taping the mats down. At least we weren't at GHC.

The wand in the weapon slot is not a big deal, it gives me a chance to explain wands. And to tell Wizards "You don't need a weapon, you ARE a weapon."

I think people put armor on the shirt slot because it's in the middle of the pictured figure.

Ideally the slots would match the body locations better (and maybe have pictures of hands, etc) but there's already a critical mass of slots on the mat, so that's not practical for the "regular" side - but it could be for the "basic" side.

Harlax wrote: We are no longer taping the mats down.

And I hope we never tape them down again! Doing so resulted in a sticky mess the next time the mats were used. Not to mention, tape doesn't stick well to the slick plastic tables.

That all said, if someone has a clean and easy method of preventing the mats from moving, please share.

Wayne Rhodes wrote: It’s surprising how often you see a wand in the weapon slot on the sheet. Just saying

To be perfectly fair, there's a pop culture empire of books, movies, games, and theme parks that features wizards who use wands in a "weapon slot". The image of Gandalf or Saruman with a "staff of focus" has been supplanted, for many, with the image of Harry or Hermione with a "wand of focus" instead.

Druegar wrote:

Harlax wrote: We are no longer taping the mats down.

And I hope we never tape them down again! Doing so resulted in a sticky mess the next time the mats were used. Not to mention, tape doesn't stick well to the slick plastic tables.

That all said, if someone has a clean and easy method of preventing the mats from moving, please share.

This would work well and is pretty inexpensive (and doesn't damage either the table or the mat)...
Velcro Tapehttps://www.amazon.com/VELCRO-Brand-Removable-Mounting-Damage-Free/dp/B01KLXCHWY

Druegar wrote:

Harlax wrote: We are no longer taping the mats down.

And I hope we never tape them down again! Doing so resulted in a sticky mess the next time the mats were used. Not to mention, tape doesn't stick well to the slick plastic tables.

That all said, if someone has a clean and easy method of preventing the mats from moving, please share.

Laser-etch them into the tabletops?

Fiddy wrote:

Druegar wrote:

Harlax wrote: We are no longer taping the mats down.

And I hope we never tape them down again! Doing so resulted in a sticky mess the next time the mats were used. Not to mention, tape doesn't stick well to the slick plastic tables.

That all said, if someone has a clean and easy method of preventing the mats from moving, please share.

Laser-etch them into the tabletops?

Good thing he didn’t say clean, easy, and cheap.