TOPIC: 2021 Rare Feedback

Guedoji wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Could Pendant of Surging gain:

You may equip when also equipping Shaman's Greater Necklace or Iktomi's Shaper Necklace

?

We will tweak all the class Relics and Legendaries after this process is over. It would have been better to design all of these at one time, but that is something a smart person would have done. Stay tuned.

Whooh, some how I glossed over this. Is this saying the other classes will have their relic and legendary necklace s completely redone? Or is it saying just the transmute would be reworked?

I was thinking some of these new legendaries were far exceeding some of the previous classes.

Did others notice this? I'm shock this hasn't blown up the forums.

*stares at monk and barbarian legendary*

No, Can't say I had noticed anything of the sort

Marc D wrote:

Guedoji wrote: He said it does not negate sneak attack immunity, but does negate critical attack immunity, stating monsters with both sneak attack and crit immunities are extremely rare, so the crit immunity piece will cover most cases.

I'm trying, and failing, to come up with some succinct text to express the nuance of "Your sneak attacks ignore critical immunities, which in turn means they ignore sneak attack immunities except when the monster is immune to surprise; +2 to hit with sneak attacks".

Maybe someone else can suggest some text so it's clear on the token itself?

“+2 to hit with Sneak Attack.
S.A. Ignores Critical & S.A. Immunities, unless foe is also immune to Surprise.“

Plate of the Forge might be a little underpowered? Shark Tooth Armor is 7 AC, 3 typeless retribution damage, Typed damage, such as the current fire, opens up potential resistance/vulnerability so 2 might be okay, but I think at least the AC should go up by 1?

So if ignoring crit immunity for rogue sneak attacks is a good thing (which I might even agree it is). Then why are we making it an item and not a class feature, why force every red rogue from this point forward to lock down their neck slot in addition to their first round sneak enabler slot?

Also is, what rare level neck is even in contention with this for best at rarity rogue neck. If there is no answer this item might be represent to much power creep.

Raven wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Guedoji wrote: He said it does not negate sneak attack immunity, but does negate critical attack immunity, stating monsters with both sneak attack and crit immunities are extremely rare, so the crit immunity piece will cover most cases.

I'm trying, and failing, to come up with some succinct text to express the nuance of "Your sneak attacks ignore critical immunities, which in turn means they ignore sneak attack immunities except when the monster is immune to surprise; +2 to hit with sneak attacks".

Maybe someone else can suggest some text so it's clear on the token itself?

“+2 to hit with Sneak Attack.
S.A. Ignores Critical & S.A. Immunities, unless foe is also immune to Surprise.“

Sweet; thanks!

Print it!

Picc wrote: So if ignoring crit immunity for rogue sneak attacks is a good thing (which I might even agree it is). Then why are we making it an item and not a class feature, why force every red rogue from this point forward to lock down their neck slot in addition to their first round sneak enabler slot?

This was actually going to be a point I brought up whenever the eventual class card redesigns came around: Sneak Attack, as currently written, is one of the few (or only) class Special Powers that starts with a bunch of restrictions that tokens eventually remove. Other Special Powers tend to start unrestricted and get improved by tokens.

Also is, what rare level neck is even in contention with this for best at rarity rogue neck. If there is no answer this item might be represent to much power creep.

Realistically, how many "crit immune" monsters are in each dungeon? 1/3 in a 3 combat, or 2/4 in a 4 combat? For a rare-level rogue, that means means 15 or 30 damage over those 3-4 combats.

It seems +1 to hit = + 2 damage; see uncommon Lyre of Rage vs. Magnificent Bard's Instrument. Assume combats go 3 rounds each. Here's the comparison, if we assume 1 in 3 immune monsters in 3-combat runs or 2 in 4 in 4-combat runs:

Amulet of Vigor
+1 hit/damage; equivalent to +3 damage/round
3-combat dungeon: 9 combat rounds, 27 damage equivalent
4-combat dungeon: 12 combat rounds, 36 damage equivalent
Comes 12 points ahead in the 3-combat dungeon, 6 points ahead in a 4-combat dungeon

Amulet of Shock
+2 damage; works with Ranged
3-combat dungeon: 9 combat rounds, 18 damage
4-combat dungeon: 12 combat rounds, 24 damage
Comes out 3 points ahead in a 3-combat dungeon, 6 points behind in a 4-combat dungeon. But, mind you Amulet of Shock works with the Rouge's significantly better Ranged To Hit, so you're not dumping a bunch of tokens into closing that gap.

Raven wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Guedoji wrote: He said it does not negate sneak attack immunity, but does negate critical attack immunity, stating monsters with both sneak attack and crit immunities are extremely rare, so the crit immunity piece will cover most cases.

I'm trying, and failing, to come up with some succinct text to express the nuance of "Your sneak attacks ignore critical immunities, which in turn means they ignore sneak attack immunities except when the monster is immune to surprise; +2 to hit with sneak attacks".

Maybe someone else can suggest some text so it's clear on the token itself?

“+2 to hit with Sneak Attack.
S.A. Ignores Critical & S.A. Immunities, unless foe is also immune to Surprise.“

It might be best just to say this:

+2 to hit with
Sneak Attack
& may SA any
monster (unless
it is immune
to Surprise)

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Guedoji wrote: He said it does not negate sneak attack immunity, but does negate critical attack immunity, stating monsters with both sneak attack and crit immunities are extremely rare, so the crit immunity piece will cover most cases.

I'm trying, and failing, to come up with some succinct text to express the nuance of "Your sneak attacks ignore critical immunities, which in turn means they ignore sneak attack immunities except when the monster is immune to surprise; +2 to hit with sneak attacks".

Maybe someone else can suggest some text so it's clear on the token itself?

“+2 to hit with Sneak Attack.
S.A. Ignores Critical & S.A. Immunities, unless foe is also immune to Surprise.“

It might be best just to say this:

+2 to hit with
Sneak Attack
& may SA any
monster (unless
it is immune
to Surprise)

That sounds simple enough

Jeff Martin wrote:

Raven wrote:

Marc D wrote:

Guedoji wrote: He said it does not negate sneak attack immunity, but does negate critical attack immunity, stating monsters with both sneak attack and crit immunities are extremely rare, so the crit immunity piece will cover most cases.

I'm trying, and failing, to come up with some succinct text to express the nuance of "Your sneak attacks ignore critical immunities, which in turn means they ignore sneak attack immunities except when the monster is immune to surprise; +2 to hit with sneak attacks".

Maybe someone else can suggest some text so it's clear on the token itself?

“+2 to hit with Sneak Attack.
S.A. Ignores Critical & S.A. Immunities, unless foe is also immune to Surprise.“

It might be best just to say this:

+2 to hit with
Sneak Attack
& may SA any
monster (unless
it is immune
to Surprise)

+2 to hit with
Sneak Attack
& may SA any
monster not immune
to Surprise

Necklace of Carnage

Sounds like a barbarian token. Necklace of Shredding or Necklace of Evisceration sound more precision oriented as double hitting is.

If interested in getting away from more damage, could inflict some penalty on monster like reduced AC or reduced damage. But, I imagine far more likely to control damage amount rather than just eliminate it through lower number or through 1/room or whatever.

Robe of the Sage

Just seems like unnecessary text. Arcane Scroll Tube doesn't say "if you can use scrolls", why would this?

Scroll Lightning Bolt

So, expect every rare, single target scroll from now on to deal 14 damage to not be sucky in comparison? Means could never reprint a scroll from previous years that deals damage to single target as none of them do 14 damage.

Wand of the Fire Snake

On the one hand, is there any particular reason Cleric and Druid are on this? On the other, I don't know that consumables get used much, so more classes means more recycled rares. Of course, also helps establish a precedent that damage wands are also cleric/druid things going forward.

No rare goblin weapon. Think that goblins aren't getting much in a year that not only emphasizes them in dungeon theme but introduces them to TD at all. Not that cutting back on Dwarven is great, but two Dwarven rare ranged weapons does seem odd.

Ian Lee wrote: Robe of the Sage

Just seems like unnecessary text. Arcane Scroll Tube doesn't say "if you can use scrolls", why would this?

It's to give the boost to Wizards without also giving it to Monks as they are the two classes who use robes.

Ian Lee wrote: No rare goblin weapon. Think that goblins aren't getting much in a year that not only emphasizes them in dungeon theme but introduces them to TD at all. Not that cutting back on Dwarven is great, but two Dwarven rare ranged weapons does seem odd.

I think the no rare goblin weapon is intentional. The goblin shield bumps up to +4 at rare level with a goblin weapon. That's out of line with rare shield power level in the past unless the drawback to activate it is noticeable. I think if you want a rare goblin weapon, the bonus on the shield would need to switch from +1 AC to something less significant.