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TOPIC: SUPER Final Transmuted Images

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #85

If

And that’s a really big if, Fighter cards were redesigned it would be fine to adjust STR and DEX there and maybe move Power Attack to the 5h level cards.

But it’s really late in the day and there is enough to do with getting the Wizard balance right.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #86

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC.

Death knight armor costs you 5 hp. If you wanted damage in the torso slot, you were already using powered plate mail, and I don’t think Fighters are really lacking in +hit
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #87

I hope the class redesign process is fast and doesn’t involve a lot of community feedback. Inviting forum feedback will result in less fun classes even if they are slightly more balanced.
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #88

James Bennett wrote: [
+2 to adding 1st level spells. I'd think at the legendary would be better personally since it gives more reason to go up to consolidate slots. Seeing the effect at all though would be wonderful.


+3, but can we also add 0 level, just in case?
First ever death in True Horde
"Well, with you guarding 2 players, that means you take 90. Are you dead?"
-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #89

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC and//or the +5 hp.


I think this is a good thing. Unless folks want the AC bonus of Redoubt to be the standard forever.

I don’t play a fighter, but reading the forums it sounds like fighters want to move away from as much AC as they have for more damage and that implies moving on from Redoubt.
Last edit: by OrionW.
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #90

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

James Bennett wrote: [
+2 to adding 1st level spells. I'd think at the legendary would be better personally since it gives more reason to go up to consolidate slots. Seeing the effect at all though would be wonderful.


+3, but can we also add 0 level, just in case?

+1 (+4?)

Put it on the legendary, and it makes the legendary a much more compelling upgrade
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #91

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC.

Death knight armor costs you 5 hp. If you wanted damage in the torso slot, you were already using powered plate mail, and I don’t think Fighters are really lacking in +hit


And, as Fiddy has put it many many times, its not that Fighters don’t care about armor, we don’t care about MORE armor.
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #92

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC and//or the +5 hp.


I think this is a good thing. Unless folks want the AC bonus of Redoubt to be the standard forever.

I don’t play a fighter, but reading the forums it sounds like fighters want to move away from as much AC as they have for more damage and that implies moving on from Redoubt.


I don’t know about “forever” - but I would like it if the only transmutable armor was the top of the armor food chain for more than 3 years-5 years.
The topic has been locked.

SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #93

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC and//or the +5 hp.


I think this is a good thing. Unless folks want the AC bonus of Redoubt to be the standard forever.

I don’t play a fighter, but reading the forums it sounds like fighters want to move away from as much AC as they have for more damage and that implies moving on from Redoubt.


IMHO (and I'm not a top tier fighter, although I've used other's epic builds) - It's not that we want to move away from AC, it's that it doesn't matter. I run NM with 24 AC and have been fine. We've got plenty of HPs so don't get targeted, DF's taunt is bypassed (e.g. by AOE), NM rounds are 2-3 rounds, and the barbarian can solo NM monsters in one hit (I've seen it).
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #94

Matthew Hayward wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC and//or the +5 hp.


I think this is a good thing. Unless folks want the AC bonus of Redoubt to be the standard forever.

I don’t play a fighter, but reading the forums it sounds like fighters want to move away from as much AC as they have for more damage and that implies moving on from Redoubt.


I don’t know about “forever” - but I would like it if the only transmutable armor was the top of the armor food chain for more than 3 years-5 years.

Redoubt should remain the high ac option, probably the top ac bookend for all time.

I don’t see how 9ac and 2str changes anything in armor. If you wanted damage, you probably fit powered plate, brawlers mug, and helm of the boar

If you didn’t care about str and ac, and want hp, you have already picked up the lucky set.

If you want best AC, Str, and HP, nothing has changed.
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #95

Endgame wrote: Redoubt should remain the high ac option, probably the top ac bookend for all time.


"for all time" - If it's not going to get reprinted, why?
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SUPER Final Transmuted Images <Last Chance! 1 year 10 months ago #96

Matthew Hayward wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote: Personally I would rather just see a statement that fighters will get more stats on the card redesign we are apperntly starting next week. That would help all fighters not just the top end who are around this year to get the legendaries.

Also for the cleric relic is it just 2nd level spells or upto second level? Never sure given how things are compressed to fit on tokens.

P.s. Also how wondering if the str from the relic neck didn't so much disappear as move to the quite possibly bis death knight armor along with the assumption top end warriors would wear both.


Top end Warrior. No one with the redoubt set is going to do that. Give up 2 sTR to Gain 2 STR?

If that is the rationale , why did DEX change.


Redoubt set is +2 STR, +5 HP, and lots of AC, and we all know how fighters feel about AC. Even with 3 legendary pieces that’s what you get.

Death Knight armor and Crown of Might Is already effectively +4 to STR on 2 URs.

Then you get to choose for melee offhand between a:
Rare +2 to damage melee
Rare +2 to hit in melee
UR +2 to STR
With the fighter relic, Any shield ranging from 1-7 AC conveying an equivalent Reflex bonus.

Alternatively, you can drop crown of might, and wear any other head slot item while keeping your +2 STR the redoubt set used to give you.

Redoubt set is no longer BiS with Death knight armor in print for melee types who can use it - unless they prize AC and//or the +5 hp.


I think this is a good thing. Unless folks want the AC bonus of Redoubt to be the standard forever.

I don’t play a fighter, but reading the forums it sounds like fighters want to move away from as much AC as they have for more damage and that implies moving on from Redoubt.


I don’t know about “forever” - but I would like it if the only transmutable armor was the top of the armor food chain for more than 3 years-5 years.


Edit to make it clear what I was responding to.


The life span of tokens is consideration. Eventually things will be eclipsed, even legendaries

But a change that make it difficult to use a legendary that is 2 years old and the relic for which was still craftable less than a year ago? Or the Redoubt set which is 2 years old and whose relic was still craftable less than a year ago?
D&D teaches all the important lessons in life - the low blow, the cheap shot, the back stab, the double cross. - Jerry Marsischky

Let them trap us. We have our swords. - Elric of Melnibone.

You try to get them to play the game, but all they want to do is play the rules. - Ardak Kumerian

I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend - Faramir
Last edit: by Harlax.
The topic has been locked.
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