TOPIC: Last Second Changes Made - Sorry! FINAL Contact Sheets

archmage78 wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

archmage78 wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

archmage78 wrote: solve real problems. power cheap is real and needs to be solved. going after 2 classes does nothing and solves nothing.

I'm curious. What is your definition of power creep? As you seem to agree that power creep is real and should be solved.

I think that most participating in the discussion feel that damage dealt in a round is a large aspect of power creep. Is that not a part of your definition?

No, going after 2 classes is not dealing with power creep. I'm sorry that you don't understand that. First, you aren't discussing power creep, you are attacking 2 classes because their damage potential is higher than yours... well thats great, thats the point of choosing to have to use 2 hands in combat, the point of having lower AC, of making it more difficult on yourself. If a monk can do their slides correctly and still hit then he or she should be rewarded with more damage. And for the millionth time, if you are going to attack 2 classes for doing more damage than you, what about rogue players who even with sneak attack damage are still watching the barbarian do 20 or 30 points more damage. No, your conversation is people thinking it is unfair that the ranger and monk have damage potential not a discussion about power creep. It is hidden under a veil but read the posts.

So yes, solve real problems like power creep, don't try to nerf 2 classes you don't like.

Don't worry about what people are saying about Monk and Ranger. I want to hear what your definition of power creep is.

I don't have a definition of Power Creep. You keep repeating this poor debate tool as if I am the issue. I don't have a definition of power creep because it isn't my definition, there is only the definition of power creep which is a general uptick in power of the players of the game. The tokens keep getting stronger and more slots keep getting added to make all characters more powerful. A well equiped party can now do 5 to 600 points of damage in a round where as 15 years ago that was more like 2 to 300. Power creep is about the whole game getting more powerful tokens. That is the definition of power creep, not my definition, but the definition.

If you actually want to discuss power creep, discuss power creep. In today's game there is no need to worry about hold, damage reduction, critical hit imunities, or even ranged combat because now we have tokens to ignore everything. We have new slots every year which then jumps up our power. Discuss all of these if you want to discuss power creep. Discussing power creep is to discuss the actual power creep, not the two class features that have always been class features.

Again, and Mike even admitted as such, this discussion of nerfing 2 characters isn't about power creep. Discussing nerfing the class features that make the characters unique of two particular classes that you simply feel do too much damage compared to the other characters is not power creep. It has nothing to do with power creep. It is simply nerfing 2 character classes. It also continually ignores the fact that the classes are harder to play because sliding two tokens is far more difficult to accomplish...especially the monk.

You're misrepresenting what I said. I said it's not all about power creep, but power creep is certainly part of the problem. The game was pretty balanced when it was created with minimal tokens, the two attacks per turn for Monk and Ranger were maybe still too powerful but not warping the game. But as the game has gone on, and bonus damage now dwarfs the base weapon damage (due to power creep), the potential of Monks and Rangers to get twice as much bonus damage as single slider classes is (in my opinion) unbalancing the game. Every year, again due to power creep, more bonus combat damage is possible, which makes the problem ever worse.

The simple solution (again, in my opinion) is to just only allow the bonus combat damage to be applied once per turn per character, regardless of how many sliders hit.

I am not warping anything that you said. I even pointed out that you acknowledged that you weren't just discussing power creep. You are still advocating nerfing 2 characters that would do nothing to improve the game. Please, it has been pointed out to all of you who keep pushing the narative that the Ranger and Monk are overpowered when they are actually balanced out by being more difficult to play and harder to armor up. Stop simply looking at damage potential as the be all end all. This discussion is neither helpful nor useful to TD. Each class has something unique about that class and trying to change that actually hurts the game.

archmage78 wrote: I am not warping anything that you said. I even pointed out that you acknowledged that you weren't just discussing power creep. You are still advocating nerfing 2 characters that would do nothing to improve the game. Please, it has been pointed out to all of you who keep pushing the narative that the Ranger and Monk are overpowered when they are actually balanced out by being more difficult to play and harder to armor up. Stop simply looking at damage potential as the be all end all. This discussion is neither helpful nor useful to TD. Each class has something unique about that class and trying to change that actually hurts the game.

I hope you can understand that you may have a difference of opinion from others, and I think a diversity of opinion, background, experiences etc is very valuable for True Dungeon (and life in general). You may think that this isn't an issue, others think differently. It's good for Jeff to be able to read the various viewpoints and decide what action if any he wants to take.

I'm back to teaching - I can't keep up with all these posts!

I honestly love the look of the MEC formatting, where the token has a really choppy broken circle and the year indicators are crooked. It makes the token standout as the shining example of how 2021 feels to be a Wizard.

Can Psyferre’s get a last minute change back to Instantaneous action? As is, many classes are losing available free actions, so it may never be usable by a lot of classes. (Case in point: legendary Wizards have 0 free actions available per combat room due to M/AM powers).