TOPIC: Last Second Changes Made - Sorry! FINAL Contact Sheets

NightGod wrote:

James Bennett wrote: I haven't had time to read through all of this yet, but I suggest we refrain from posting detailed analysis for the time being. There are a lot of assumptions which may be proven false later which are at play. At least two common ones I've seen in this thread:

* That the raw spell damage on wizards 3rd level spells will be doubled. Jeff said he as planning to double them, but we haven't actually seen the card yet.
* MEC analysis may be premature. There may be limits placed upon it or any number of other factors from the Relic/Legendary we don't know about yet. I have yet to see the updated descriptions from Jeff which he mentioned he was working on from Saturday night.

But being patient and waiting would prevent people from complaining the someone else might do more damage than them. Where's the fun in that?

More importantly, as Jeff develops the Mage and Arch Mage powers and the Character Sheet changes, it should be helpful for him to see things as they stand now with the MEC and proposed doubling of spell damage to use as a baseline. The analysis was more for Jeff's info than forum discussion, although it certainly served both purposes.

Do we know what the Death Knight set bonus is?

MetaphoricDragon wrote: Do we know what the Death Knight set bonus is?

4 retribution damage

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Jeff, I will make one final plea: please include at minimum 1 mage power and 1 arch-mage power that costs no HP and I will absolutely love the neck items for Wizards. I can just use them for the non-harmful effects and play like the other options don’t exist It would be a nice little compromise that would go a long way!

I'd like this as well. not because I care about the hp cost options, but because having a lesser option that does not cost hp adds some more versatility when near low health.

MetaphoricDragon wrote: Do we know what the Death Knight set bonus is?

4 retribution damage.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=640&id=251691&start=144#380670

Cassie wrote:

Anthony Barnstable wrote: Jeff, I will make one final plea: please include at minimum 1 mage power and 1 arch-mage power that costs no HP and I will absolutely love the neck items for Wizards. I can just use them for the non-harmful effects and play like the other options don’t exist It would be a nice little compromise that would go a long way!

I'd like this as well. not because I care about the hp cost options, but because having a lesser option that does not cost hp adds some more versatility when near low health.

Assuming we get like 6 powers to choose from at each level there should be options for each version of the Wizard

Like choose 3 from this list of 6. Maybe have 2 passive, 1 non HP, 2 HP based and 1 defensive or something.

Keeps the focus on the MEC as it's the core but allows more versatility for those who aren't MEC advocates

Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

Aeroneus Martellus wrote: Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

A little earlier in the thread, I laid out a simple healing scenario where a relic level Druid and Relic level cleric restore 34hp / round to each wizards, with a single cast of cure minor wounds each. The maximum is higher - about 96hp / round per wizard

Endgame wrote:

Aeroneus Martellus wrote: Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

A little earlier in the thread, I laid out a simple healing scenario where a relic level Druid and Relic level cleric restore 34hp / round to each wizards, with a single cast of cure minor wounds each. The maximum is higher - about 96hp / round per wizard

Thanks - just catching up since I'm out-of-time sync'd (I'm 7 hours "behind" or 17 hours ahead depending on how you look at it) I'll go looking for it.

Aeroneus Martellus wrote: Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

If you can kill the monster in two rounds, as long as you have a healer for each Wizard, you can do something like:
Round 1: Wizards Nova strike, then get healed
Round 2: Wizards get healed and then Nova strike. Then pray monster is dead because otherwise your Wizards probably are.

That's using 4 healing spells from your healer (1SA and 1 FA each round) per combat. 2nd Nova strike should be able to be pretty close to full power, maybe a few HP low. Depends on the specific HP the Wizard has at max.

If you got through all 3 combats that way, your healers have used up 12 of their spells. We'll assume CoSS, because otherwise you ran out already. Cleric still has 3 spells that could heal left. Druid has 4. But... wait. You probably burned all those between combats (along with a FoP: Phoenix and Cleric ressurection) so that the Wizards are recharged at the start of combat 2 and 3. So the only healing you've got for puzzles or damage from monsters is from RoSS and Crown of Expertise (and you might have needed those between combats to top off the Wizard). Hopefully you brought along a Bard for Sooth Wounds on the puzzles. And consumables for monster damage.

Fiddy wrote:

Aeroneus Martellus wrote: Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

If you can kill the monster in two rounds, as long as you have a healer for each Wizard, you can do something like:
Round 1: Wizards Nova strike, then get healed
Round 2: Wizards get healed and then Nova strike. Then pray monster is dead because otherwise your Wizards probably are.

That's using 4 healing spells from your healer (1SA and 1 FA each round) per combat. 2nd Nova strike should be able to be pretty close to full power, maybe a few HP low. Depends on the specific HP the Wizard has at max.

If you got through all 3 combats that way, your healers have used up 12 of their spells. We'll assume CoSS, because otherwise you ran out already. Cleric still has 3 spells that could heal left. Druid has 4. But... wait. You probably burned all those between combats (along with a FoP: Phoenix and Cleric ressurection) so that the Wizards are recharged at the start of combat 2 and 3. So the only healing you've got for puzzles or damage from monsters is from RoSS and Crown of Expertise (and you might have needed those between combats to top off the Wizard). Hopefully you brought along a Bard for Sooth Wounds on the puzzles. And consumables for monster damage.

So sounds like it's doable-ish but you're almost better off having a smaller party because no one else is gonna get healed? So the avg damage/character has to go up to compensate. And everyone is running UR+ builds.

EDIT: And if I don't have a Druid AND a Cleric buffing me, I'm not doing this insane damage. I ONLY get to do the damage IF I'm working together with the other two, and if either or both is missing (which I've done runs before as) then I'm on my own.

Aeroneus Martellus wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Aeroneus Martellus wrote: Out of curiosity - for all these damage calculations - has anyone also run the numbers to see what sort of support is needed to keep pumping the Wizard back to full health everytime?

Maybe it's a lot easier than I'm thinking, but we just keep talking about raw damage rather than how many potions I'd need to drink or how many points of healing the Cleric/Druid would need to give me every single round. EDIT: And could they sustain it - and how much would remain for ACTUAL room damage and other party members.

If you can kill the monster in two rounds, as long as you have a healer for each Wizard, you can do something like:
Round 1: Wizards Nova strike, then get healed
Round 2: Wizards get healed and then Nova strike. Then pray monster is dead because otherwise your Wizards probably are.

That's using 4 healing spells from your healer (1SA and 1 FA each round) per combat. 2nd Nova strike should be able to be pretty close to full power, maybe a few HP low. Depends on the specific HP the Wizard has at max.

If you got through all 3 combats that way, your healers have used up 12 of their spells. We'll assume CoSS, because otherwise you ran out already. Cleric still has 3 spells that could heal left. Druid has 4. But... wait. You probably burned all those between combats (along with a FoP: Phoenix and Cleric ressurection) so that the Wizards are recharged at the start of combat 2 and 3. So the only healing you've got for puzzles or damage from monsters is from RoSS and Crown of Expertise (and you might have needed those between combats to top off the Wizard). Hopefully you brought along a Bard for Sooth Wounds on the puzzles. And consumables for monster damage.

So sounds like it's doable-ish but you're almost better off having a smaller party because no one else is gonna get healed? So the avg damage/character has to go up to compensate. And everyone is running UR+ builds.

Yeah, there's definitely a fair amount of work that goes into supporting it. It's not a simple case of "two wizards walk into dungeon, everything dies". Especially when you consider that the people with this level of gear and coordination are likely running on Epic.