TOPIC: Ultra Rare Token Ideas

Lequinian wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

macxdmg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

SageSTL wrote: Harlax was a core part of Team Synergy since its early days. I think that a synergistic token would be very appropriate, especially if it is something that could (especially?) benefit a Dwarf Fighter. I'll think on it further, but open to any ideas...

Synergistic Taunt or AC?

Shield of retribution, +4 con, 2 points of retribution damage.

Edit, and add 2 charisma

I think SageSTL was going for something that increased value based on number equipped, a la charm of synergy.

However, I personally fully support more retribution damage in the game!

Harlax’s Charm of Retribution - +1 retribution damage per charm in party. +2 if Taunting.

Harlax’s Tome of Monkey Grip (slotless or Tome slot) - treat a single 2-handed weapon as 1-handed. (Declare in coaching)

Recharging Ioun Stone
Damage wands do +2 damage to one target and 1 room/game a wand can be used without turning it in.

The Big Book Series from Tome-Life Books:

The Big Book of Weapon Oils (Fighters, Monk, Ranger) - Pick 3 UC or lower Weapon Oils. You may use these without turning them in.
The Big Book of Ammunition (Bard, Rogue, Ranger) - Pick 3 UC or lower ammunition. You may use these without turning them in.
The Big Book of Armor (Cleric, Fighters, Paladin) - Pick 3 Rare of lower armors (torso). Gain the benefits of each that do not effect the party card.
The Big Book of Weapons (Barbarian, Fighters, Paladin) - Pick 3 Rare or lower weapons. Gain the benefits of each that do not effect the party card.
The Big Book of Cooking (Barbarian, Druid, Ranger) - Pick 3 UC or lower non-potion consumables. You may use these without turning them in.
The Big Book of Grenades (Monk, Fighters, Rogue) - Pick 3 UC or lower alchemical weapons. You may use these without turning them in
The Big Book of Turning Things (Cleric) - Pick 3 Rare or lower non-consumable tokens that allow modifications to Turn Undead. Treat them as slotless.
The Big Book of Backstabbing (Rogue) - Pick 3 Rare or lower non-consumable tokens that allow modifications to Sneak Attack. Treat them as slotless.
The Big Book of Protecting (Paladin) - Pick 3 Rare or lower non-consumable tokens that affect Paladin abilities. Treat them as slotless.
The Big Book of Polymorphing (Druid, Wizards) - Pick 3 UC or lower polymorph tokens. Gain the benefits of each that do not effect the party card

Barbarian's book should just be +1/2 Str (or maybe con), and be called "Tome of Heavy Knowledge" picture is just a single MASSIVE book labeled "Aron's Encyclopedia of Everything" or something similar

I would rather see consumables get a boost so people have to make the choice to use them instead of the boost being to not turn them in.

Miathan wrote: I would rather see consumables get a boost so people have to make the choice to use them instead of the boost being to not turn them in.

Problem is you'd need to boost spell dusts to +15 damage for me to be willing to burn rares 1/spell.

Uncommon consumables at 2/spell-heal-attack are just too weak to be worth using. +6 or something you might see them used.

Even full room oils mainly only get used in Grind/Horde given how short most combats are.

Runestones and full adventure tokens seem to be the main consumables that get used

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Miathan wrote: I would rather see consumables get a boost so people have to make the choice to use them instead of the boost being to not turn them in.

Problem is you'd need to boost spell dusts to +15 damage for me to be willing to burn rares 1/spell.

Uncommon consumables at 2/spell-heal-attack are just too weak to be worth using. +6 or something you might see them used.

Even full room oils mainly only get used in Grind/Horde given how short most combats are.

Runestones and full adventure tokens seem to be the main consumables that get used

If that’s the case that they are unusable then we should advocate for them to be either usable all adventure or room or discontinued but I would rather see them buffed so they are used. I like the choice of having to use consumables but you are right that they aren’t at a level that I would use them.

I would love to see a build that was say 0 damage bonus but if I used a masterwork arrow it would go up to 25 damage at the rare and maybe a couple ur level

Please and Thank you.

Death Knight Mail
truedungeon.com/sets
+6 AC &
+1 STR
All except Monk & Wizards

Set Bonus: Deals 4 pts of damage to any monster that hits wearer in melee

Miathan wrote: If that’s the case that they are unusable then we should advocate for them to be either usable all adventure or room or discontinued but I would rather see them buffed so they are used. I like the choice of having to use consumables but you are right that they aren’t at a level that I would use them.

I would love to see a build that was say 0 damage bonus but if I used a masterwork arrow it would go up to 25 damage at the rare and maybe a couple ur level

The scaling of much of the game is really compared to like sealed pack level builds. Using a red scroll for 12 is not the worst thing in the world when 12 actually matters. Potions get used because they have applications in and out of combat. Ammunition/Dust suffers from just being really weak. Above common level, and the question is why throw away value; commons don't really have that problem, they have the problem that it's too much effort to carry them around for how little they do.

I find myself far more inclined to use consumables with VTD because they aren't just thrown away but get double (theoretical) use. But, also, runs can be crafted where consumables are more relevant.

What ammunition probably should have been is like "Quiver of Masterwork Arrows", where you turn in a common for +1 damage for the entire combat, as you point out. It feels so wasteful when using one token per attack. Dust could be the same, though there's still an element of how good it is to last an entire combat being run dependent.

Even the atrocious arrows that give you HP on a 20 start making somewhat more sense if one token applied to every attack for a combat.

Anyway, ammo is odd because it's only relevant on the margin, which is going to be situationally dependent unless you know exactly how to approach a dungeon, a la VTD runs 3+. On the other hand, sliding has way more control of values than dierolling, so VTD is worse in a key way. For instance, if you can consistently slide 13 and 14 will hit, then +1 to hit matters, where spending tokens on +1 to hit when the dieroller will bounce you all over the place is not compelling to me.

With potions getting used as needed and weird stuff like pearls or skulls or whatever being not always available, have scrolls which don't scale well but may see use with Shield of the Scholar or Lenses of Sage Speed and alchemicals which are actually kind of interesting in VTD except there's no reason to use them until the apps can handle them - wastes too much time.

Ian Lee wrote:

Miathan wrote: If that’s the case that they are unusable then we should advocate for them to be either usable all adventure or room or discontinued but I would rather see them buffed so they are used. I like the choice of having to use consumables but you are right that they aren’t at a level that I would use them.

I would love to see a build that was say 0 damage bonus but if I used a masterwork arrow it would go up to 25 damage at the rare and maybe a couple ur level

The scaling of much of the game is really compared to like sealed pack level builds. Using a red scroll for 12 is not the worst thing in the world when 12 actually matters. Potions get used because they have applications in and out of combat. Ammunition/Dust suffers from just being really weak. Above common level, and the question is why throw away value; commons don't really have that problem, they have the problem that it's too much effort to carry them around for how little they do.

I find myself far more inclined to use consumables with VTD because they aren't just thrown away but get double (theoretical) use. But, also, runs can be crafted where consumables are more relevant.

What ammunition probably should have been is like "Quiver of Masterwork Arrows", where you turn in a common for +1 damage for the entire combat, as you point out. It feels so wasteful when using one token per attack. Dust could be the same, though there's still an element of how good it is to last an entire combat being run dependent.

Even the atrocious arrows that give you HP on a 20 start making somewhat more sense if one token applied to every attack for a combat.

Anyway, ammo is odd because it's only relevant on the margin, which is going to be situationally dependent unless you know exactly how to approach a dungeon, a la VTD runs 3+. On the other hand, sliding has way more control of values than dierolling, so VTD is worse in a key way. For instance, if you can consistently slide 13 and 14 will hit, then +1 to hit matters, where spending tokens on +1 to hit when the dieroller will bounce you all over the place is not compelling to me.

With potions getting used as needed and weird stuff like pearls or skulls or whatever being not always available, have scrolls which don't scale well but may see use with Shield of the Scholar or Lenses of Sage Speed and alchemicals which are actually kind of interesting in VTD except there's no reason to use them until the apps can handle them - wastes too much time.

I get it but I just think it was cool if say a whole build was dedicated to scroll buffs and you are at like 100-150 damage when you use it but 0spell damage because it’s all tied up in scroll buffs

I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.

I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.