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TOPIC: Ultra Rare Token Ideas

Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #205

Came up with something in response to a post about a 2020 commemoration token a few days ago, thought I'd post it here expanded...

UR: Novashield Mask: +2 AC, Immune to All Disease

R: Novaguard Mask: +1 AC, Immune to Natural Disease

Yes, I know It's "Novel" but Nova sounds better. :P
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Last edit: by Dougout.

Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #206

Lequinian wrote: Harlax’s Tome of Monkey Grip (slotless or Tome slot) - treat a single 2-handed weapon as 1-handed. (Declare in coaching)

Could that work for Rangers too since it's a slotless book? :)
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #207

David Zych wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

David Zych wrote: I'll agree Charm of Brooching is usually +2 or +3 but could be +4.

Since Wayne's proposal is also usually +2 or +3 but could be +4, that doesn't seem out of line to me, particularly given the tradition of honorarily named tokens being a little above the curve.


This seems to completely ignore the added cost of the Relic involved to make Charm of Brooching that powerful. You're saying to take an existing UR plus a Relic and roll the effect into the lower power UR slot at the cost of having the party equip it. I suggest putting it in the back slot if you want the +2/+3/+4 table. Charm is probably more correct at +1/+2/+3.


You're not wrong about +4 being pricey to get otherwise, but that's the incentive to build full synergy; I'm pretty sure the top end +10hp for Charm of Synergy was similarly unprecedented. (Closest comparison now IMO is the new IS Elfstone Shard, which is also a relic, and didn't exist when CoS was printed).

+2 is Charm of Brooching with a rare. +3 is Charm of Brooching with an in-print Lucky Cloak, but that combo might also grant lucky set bonus, and doesn't depend on what the rest of the party is wearing.


"Charm of Brooching" is currently "Equip two different back items", not a save modifier. Can we come up with a different name, please? Or did I miss some point where the discussion shifted from save modifiers to back slots?
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Last edit: by Dougout.

Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #208

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.


I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.


Yes, you are right. I forgot it affected wands. Maybe in a year or 2.

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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #209

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.


I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.


We know that you only want spell damage but I’m sure many people out there want alt builds and in order to make them viable you need tokens more than one every other year

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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #210

Dougout wrote: "Charm of Brooching" is currently "Equip two different back items", not a save modifier. Can we come up with a different name, please? Or did I miss some point where the discussion shifted from save modifiers to back slots?


You missed the assumption that charm of brooching lets you equip these:

+2 Cloak of resistance
+3 Cloaks in many varieties
+4 Greater cloak of destiny
+6 Pharacuss

So they are equating it to the benefit received from the charm of brooching, and comparing it in that way.

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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #211

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.


I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.


If only we had an additional 5 URs per year that rotated through desired reprints, leaving room for expansion of different players styles.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #212

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.


I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.


If only we had an additional 5 URs per year that rotated through desired reprints, leaving room for expansion of different players styles.

Do we need extra URs? We had 2 reprints and 3 effective reprints (death Knight Gauntlets, nightshade’s, ring of Expertise), so we really nicely covered reprints.

For new URs, Charm of the Faerie could have been swapped for a lot of different options, and I don’t think many people would be upset.

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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #213

jpotter wrote:

Dougout wrote: "Charm of Brooching" is currently "Equip two different back items", not a save modifier. Can we come up with a different name, please? Or did I miss some point where the discussion shifted from save modifiers to back slots?


You missed the assumption that charm of brooching lets you equip these:

+2 Cloak of resistance
+3 Cloaks in many varieties
+4 Greater cloak of destiny
+6 Pharacuss

So they are equating it to the benefit received from the charm of brooching, and comparing it in that way.


Yeah, I must've missed that point in the comparison and got confused.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #214

Endgame wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I just edited my ideas post for something relevant to your idea. I floated this idea before: minus spell damage, plus wand damage (in this case, but it could be scroll). Still doesn't scale well. -2/+10 might still be unimportant to some people and kind of gross for others, but, then, tokens aren't equally good in all builds.


I'd prefer not adding another wand/scroll damage focused UR token this year after the creation of the Ring of the Siren last year.

These kinds of tokens do better as transmutes, where someone who wants one can craft it, vs using up one of the 20 UR token slots on a token that will go largely ignored.


If only we had an additional 5 URs per year that rotated through desired reprints, leaving room for expansion of different players styles.

Do we need extra URs? We had 2 reprints and 3 effective reprints (death Knight Gauntlets, nightshade’s, ring of Expertise), so we really nicely covered reprints.

For new URs, Charm of the Faerie could have been swapped for a lot of different options, and I don’t think many people would be upset.

I think it would allow for more varied build options.

Charm of the Faerie is undesired because the effect is too good at 1/room per game, and not nearly good enough at 1 round per game.
First ever death in True Horde
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #215

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Charm of the Faerie is undesired because the effect is too good at 1/room per game, and not nearly good enough at 1 round per game.


Context removed..

What would have made it desirable at 1 round per game? This could be pedantic since it is an in print UR or useful as this is a design thread, I’m not sure yet.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 9 months 1 week ago #216

macxdmg wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: Charm of the Faerie is undesired because the effect is too good at 1/room per game, and not nearly good enough at 1 round per game.


Context removed..

What would have made it desirable at 1 round per game? This could be pedantic since it is an in print UR or useful as this is a design thread, I’m not sure yet.

Currently, its basically a +1 dex charm with a one off ability that lasts for one round. It would be more desirable if the base power of the charm was better.

First,
The charm is at odds with itself. It adds dex, which helps ranged attacks hit, but also lets you attacking flying creatures with melee. If the charm were more complimentary, it would be more desirable - ex increase melee ability and add the ability to fly.

Second,
In my experience, Ranged only combats tend to last much longer than melee combats. Its typical for my group to have 5 rounds on a ranged combat room, where we either just kill the monster or we fail and move on. That means that the 1 round melee ability helps for 1/5 of the combat (maybe 1/4 or 1/3 if enough people were able to make melee attacks.) A 1/5 of a room boost for a combat feels really short for a UR.

Third,
Rare attribute boosters are +1 (vol tokens) and UR attribute boosters are +2 (vol tokens). So its basically its a rare (granted, vol rare) with a 1 round / game ability tacked on. If the base ability were larger, then it would feel more like a UR.

Putting it all together:
an "ideal" Charm of the Faerie, as far as what would interest me / my group, would complement melee attacks, be equal in base ability to other UR stat charms, and provide the attack flying ability. It might look like this:

Charm of the Leaping Bull
+1 Str, +1 Con
May Attack Flying w/ Melee attacks (1/game)

Now we get +2 attributes, but they are in different attributes, so it doesn't directly outclass the Greater X Charms. Additionally, Str is included in the stat buff, so we actually synergize with the attack flying with melee.

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