TOPIC: 2022 Recipe Discussion

Rob F wrote: Thats good data. I'd be interested to see how many total Steel/Hide it took to make each years Legendary and Relic tokens. And then compare that to your numbers above. My memory is the transmutes have historically required more Steel, which is why I think I have more Hide because when I do transmute more steel gets sucked up. Looking at just 2014 legendaries/relics, if you wanted to make one of each you would have needed 135 Steel to only 39 Hide. So even though that year there was a 2:1 ratio of steel/hide when converting your tokens to TG's it took over THREE times the steel to make your transmutes. So the recipes were off that year and should have required more hide. If other past years were similar then I don't see why having one year off the other way is a big deal.

Was that a random year you picked or the year that had 4 relic weapons and 3 Legendary weapons in it...hmmm. But okay you wanted to see that data.

2012 the ratio was 79DS:47HM 1.680851:1 for all relics and legendarys. 2012 collect was 1.66666:1
2013 21:14 (very few transmutes this year) 1.5:1. Collect 2:1.
2014 127:37 (lots of weapons) 3.25641:1. Collect 2:1
2015 (2 relic/2legendary weapons) 61:22 2.772727:1. Collect 1.8:1
2016 72:26 2.769231:1 Collection 1.166667:1
2017 34:14 2.428571:1 Collect 1.333:1
2018 60:29 2.068966:1 Collect 1.33:1
2019 39:13 3:1 Collection 1.5:1
2020 100:95 1.05:1 Collect 1.42
2021 77:67 1.149254 Collect 1.5
2022 Proposal 65:95 0.684211 Collection 2.25:1.

There is one of these that don't follow the trend. 2022 which requires more MH than DS. I do agree that in the early years when there was a weapon or multiple weapons it skewed heavy DS. You will notice that when we changed to the more expensive forums in 2020 the numbers of 2020 and 2021 were close.

Please excuse me if the math or english is less than stellar. I am up way too late tonight.

Rob F wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Rob F wrote:
I actually have more Hide them Steel. And I don't typically transmute much or resell. So maybe in years past hide was more common then steel from the sets. Or maybe all the 10 packs over the years I've opened have just been weighted more towards hide. I don't know. All I'm saying is it seems to balance out over time. Munition was hard to get years back now it's not in high demand. Silk was too now everyone has it. Stone was like plank now it's more in demand. Things ebb and flow with the TG's

There hasn't been a single year that is in the tokenbd that there was more MH than DS. As I said MH is ALWAYS fewer than DS in the collection. And recipes have respected that.

Total tokens that convert to DS 125.
Total tokens that convert to MH 77.

I already broke down back to 2020.
2003 1DS/0MH
2004 1DS/0MH
2005 9/3
'06 11/3
'07 11/4
'08 10/4
'09 11/4
10 8/5
11 9/5
12 10/6
13 10/5
14 10/5
15 9/5
16 9/6
17 8/6
18 8/6
19 9/6

Admittedly it has gotten closer to par that where it started. And I am not advocating that they be equal. But that means that the requirements shouldn't be equal. Yes some trade goods have gone up and down. I prefer stability to that though.

Thats good data. I'd be interested to see how many total Steel/Hide it took to make each years Legendary and Relic tokens. And then compare that to your numbers above. My memory is the transmutes have historically required more Steel, which is why I think I have more Hide because when I do transmute more steel gets sucked up. Looking at just 2014 legendaries/relics, if you wanted to make one of each you would have needed 135 Steel to only 39 Hide. So even though that year there was a 2:1 ratio of steel/hide when converting your tokens to TG's it took over THREE times the steel to make your transmutes. So the recipes were off that year and should have required more hide. If other past years were similar then I don't see why having one year off the other way is a big deal.

I just checked 2021

67 hide were needed for the recipes, but only 40 are produced in a 4k.

Edit, checked 2020 too:
2020: 95 hide used, 46 produced

We have already had our year of more hide than production… and I didn’t even check 2020 or 2019, which I think were the same with more use than production.

jedibcg wrote:

Rob F wrote:
I actually have more Hide them Steel. And I don't typically transmute much or resell. So maybe in years past hide was more common then steel from the sets. Or maybe all the 10 packs over the years I've opened have just been weighted more towards hide. I don't know. All I'm saying is it seems to balance out over time. Munition was hard to get years back now it's not in high demand. Silk was too now everyone has it. Stone was like plank now it's more in demand. Things ebb and flow with the TG's

There hasn't been a single year that is in the tokenbd that there was more MH than DS. As I said MH is ALWAYS fewer than DS in the collection. And recipes have respected that.

Total tokens that convert to DS 125.
Total tokens that convert to MH 77.

I already broke down back to 2020.
2003 1DS/0MH
2004 1DS/0MH
2005 9/3
'06 11/3
'07 11/4
'08 10/4
'09 11/4
10 8/5
11 9/5
12 10/6
13 10/5
14 10/5
15 9/5
16 9/6
17 8/6
18 8/6
19 9/6

Admittedly it has gotten closer to par that where it started. And I am not advocating that they be equal. But that means that the requirements shouldn't be equal. Yes some trade goods have gone up and down. I prefer stability to that though.

Thanks for the data. I appreciate your effort on this. Insightful indeed

If going to start fresh on aligning to availability, I could see basically taking whatever year's 8k output, divide by some number like 4, round down to nearest whole number, and using that as the average relic recipe. Then, make some adjustment for treasure if you want, which obviously doesn't affect either DS or MH, though adjusting for treasure is made complicated by understanding how much treasure transmuters end up getting, which VTD likely shifted massively.

Last two years, AP more available than AI, yet average recipe AI used just about same as AP. DP, MS, EM, AR, EB, OE, etc. all "corrected". When you have very different recipes, the imbalances will still occur, like how +3 Throwing Hammer and Blessed Redoubt Helm take very different MH, but recipes seem to be converging due to sheer volume needed.

I don't have a problem with DS/MH quantities being reasonably in line with availability for a given year, but not clear why the same theory doesn't apply to every TG. Also, claiming limits of 8k bundles on legendary production while ignoring gold constraint seems misleading. Of course, it's not like 3*/4* are in some perfect balancing act to equitably suck out TG every year. 2021 was all about overloading PS on as much as possible.

I think that is very reasonable, with the be understanding that we (the community not you and I) may/do disagree on what is "reasonably in line with availability." I also think some variety makes sense, like weapons take a bit more steel while armor takes a bit more hides. 2022 though seems very distorted for previous years when I look at the data.

jedibcg wrote:

Rob F wrote: Thats good data. I'd be interested to see how many total Steel/Hide it took to make each years Legendary and Relic tokens. And then compare that to your numbers above. My memory is the transmutes have historically required more Steel, which is why I think I have more Hide because when I do transmute more steel gets sucked up. Looking at just 2014 legendaries/relics, if you wanted to make one of each you would have needed 135 Steel to only 39 Hide. So even though that year there was a 2:1 ratio of steel/hide when converting your tokens to TG's it took over THREE times the steel to make your transmutes. So the recipes were off that year and should have required more hide. If other past years were similar then I don't see why having one year off the other way is a big deal.

Was that a random year you picked or the year that had 4 relic weapons and 3 Legendary weapons in it...hmmm. But okay you wanted to see that data.

2012 the ratio was 79DS:47HM 1.680851:1 for all relics and legendarys. 2012 collect was 1.66666:1
2013 21:14 (very few transmutes this year) 1.5:1. Collect 2:1.
2014 127:37 (lots of weapons) 3.25641:1. Collect 2:1
2015 (2 relic/2legendary weapons) 61:22 2.772727:1. Collect 1.8:1
2016 72:26 2.769231:1 Collection 1.166667:1
2017 34:14 2.428571:1 Collect 1.333:1
2018 60:29 2.068966:1 Collect 1.33:1
2019 39:13 3:1 Collection 1.5:1
2020 100:95 1.05:1 Collect 1.42
2021 77:67 1.149254 Collect 1.5
2022 Proposal 65:95 0.684211 Collection 2.25:1.

There is one of these that don't follow the trend. 2022 which requires more MH than DS. I do agree that in the early years when there was a weapon or multiple weapons it skewed heavy DS. You will notice that when we changed to the more expensive forums in 2020 the numbers of 2020 and 2021 were close.

Please excuse me if the math or english is less than stellar. I am up way too late tonight.

Thanks for running the numbers. Looks like 2022 would be the first year it would take more hide then steel to make all the transmutes. And hide production would definitely be light. I'd be ok with this for a year as other past years steel production was off from what was required to make the transmutes. I see why people are concerned though.

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Druegar wrote: The QTR is no longer in beta. As such, this thread will be locked later on today.

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Thank you for listening to us about our concerns.