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TOPIC: 2023 Re-Print Ideas

2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #133

Mongo64 wrote: Perhaps this is partially a matter of perspective on what one calls expensive. I've yet to see a Skull sell for less than $1500. To the non wealthy that "IS" insanely expensive. Its a mortgage payment.
Again, philosophical opinion, but, True Dungeon should be about playing the game, not about having to spend megabucks to play a green card character. If there was an opportunity to play said alternative characters without megabucks tokens of the wealthy, then I would withdraw my statements.


I agree that there should be multiple paths to the green cards, since they are intended to be different, not better. The skull was a good first step for that, and quite possibly the arcanum ring set will add another avenue of access. I've also suggested a treasure box item ala a Folio or the transmoph charms to allow it in the past, and still think that would be another good way to do it.

On the full multi year tokens, I'm against reprints in general. It's the one area I believe is fine to have a true collectability aspect to the game, and I can't really fault people that are into collecting for wanting to keep collectiblity somewhere when nearly everything else is reprintable. You can come in at basically any point and work toward whatever the existing multi year items are, but the ones that have been done are in the past and should stay that way. I neither expect nor want Magic to reprint any of the Power 9, nor do I want them to create new names on the same powers. In a similar fashion, I neither expect nor want the Rod or its segments reprinted, even under a different name.

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Last edit: by Endgame.

2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #134

It doesn't help now, but if you had collect the teeth as they came out over the 7 years the cost would be much less. Pretty much all of them were available for $100 on the secondary market in the year of release. But yeah if your new to TD even the $1000 ebay auctions is very steep.

But I'm in the camp of not going backwards, Jeff is starting new things now the mutli-year shirts (year 3 of 4) and Ring of the 5th Circle (year 1 of 5) will both turn into part of a new arcanum set. The barrier to entry is not high on these. Ring around $75, 2 PYPs shirts at $85 or so each; and probably Shirt of the Oaf around $150. And you can wait till next year for the 3rd shirt.

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Last edit: by David Harris.

2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #135

For Endgame, ,, I too WAS a Magic player from the 1st day the cards were released, ,, with more than a 4 set of power 9. When it became clear it was becoming and still is a money pit more than a GAME, I quit. I don't care about collection value of the cards. If I had my way I'd reprint 10k+ of each card (with "reprint" on the cards) and give them away for free and write it off as a charitable contribution. A bit off topic so last I want to say on the subject in this posting.
On topic, Gloves of Deflection is the realistic reprint that I'd really like to see happen.

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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #136

Iross wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Mongo64 wrote: Reprint Gloves of Deflection.
Reprint all Rod of 7 Parts pieces and all Ring of Supreme Elemental Command pieces and reopen transmute so people who didn't have megabucks to spend years ago have a chance to obtain Eldtrich set.


I don't think those items required "megabucks" years ago. They require "megabucks" now though. Those Tokens were perks for people who played the game then and spent 7 years of their life buying and collecting Tokens. I think pigs will fly before a Rod or Ring piece is ever reprinted. If you want to join that train I suggest you start buying the Rings of the 5th Circle now and stick it out for the next four years or whatever the transmute period is.

This next comment is a general thought not directed at you - In today's culture of instant gratification, the "I got to have everything I want now, because, well, Amazon wired my brain that way" I'm hoping TPTB at TD continue to see the value in keeping some things sacred and special and not caving to the "entitled generation". It's ok to not have everything (unless your Trent). Life and fun times can still be had if you don't.


The problem with the Rod is that it's slotless and very powerful. If it were slotted, anyone who didn't have it could at least put something useful in that slot instead. As it is, the simple truth is that people who do not own it will never be able to have a character as powerful as those who do, regardless of what effect the current and any future multi-year transmutes might have. It's a bit of a moot point, since Jeff has been clear on not reprinting Relics, but for the reason above I'd be very supportive of a reprint if it did happen.


Keep in mind there are very few completed Rods so there are very few people that will have a slightly (slightly because in a build not all +1's will matter) more powerful character. And I'm fine with that. Why should everyone have access to every Token? Those that have Rods that have been playing for many years and put their time in, great for them. Those that don't can still build a great character and have fun without the Rods. And if they really want one then I say pony up the cash and buy one.
The Arcane Tokens are also out there that give those few users another edge and I think it's awesome. Not everyone has to have everything.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi

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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #137

Raven wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: In physical TD, Ektdar’s saves time.


^^ This. And even more so with the Rod of Persuasion.

I really enjoy doing the Rogue box, but I find I'm occasionally left out of the puzzle-solving if I'm stuck in a corner for 2-3 minutes (Longer if the DM needs to watch the party as they solve things, or reset something when they fail, and doesn't have time to supervise a lone Rogue). Sometimes I'll just use the Rod of Persuasion on the box so I can have more time to interact with a particularly cool puzzle, or I'll be glad for Ektdar's when we're in a room which will clearly take more time to solve than we've got on the clock, unless we get that clue to point us in the right direction.


Right, but that's what I mean about Ektdar's, it's not as good as Persuasion, it's kinda obsolete at this point now that Persuasion was printed, do we really need to use up a reprint on Ektdar's, or is Persuasion really a better replacement. Using Persuasion saves much more time, and the cost of HP is negligible. Seems like the better option for Rogues, no need for Ektdar's any more.
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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #138

Rob F wrote:
Keep in mind there are very few completed Rods so there are very few people that will have a slightly (slightly because in a build not all +1's will matter) more powerful character. And I'm fine with that. Why should everyone have access to every Token? Those that have Rods that have been playing for many years and put their time in, great for them. Those that don't can still build a great character and have fun without the Rods. And if they really want one then I say pony up the cash and buy one.
The Arcane Tokens are also out there that give those few users another edge and I think it's awesome. Not everyone has to have everything.


I'd rate the rod as being very powerful rather than just slightly. Taking into account the Elemental Eldritch set bonus, the Rod grants a slotless +1 to damage, +2 to healing and +1/+2 to saves depending on your stats, along with the associated possibilities of an extra 5HP, +1 to melee hit and damage, and +1 to ranged hit, AC and reflect saves - as well as the once per year subclass. It'd still be a good token even if it needed a slot to equip.

It wasn't included in my suggested reprints list since it's fairly clear that it's not getting a reprint, and I agree that not everyone has to have everything (the percentage of TD players who own the highest end builds must be very small, and the excitement of owning rare gear is a large part of TD's appeal).

At the same time, I don't think it's a good thing that if a new player starts playing TD, they do so knowing that no matter how much time or money they put into TD, their character can never become as strong as those belonging to players who started playing in the period 2008-2014 (barring spending maybe $4000 on the secondary market, if they are lucky enough to find a Rod for sale in the first place).

I may as well suggest the below in the transmute thread:

Lesser Rod of Seven Parts
Transmute cost: 50,000 GP and one of each trade good.
Cannot be equipped at the same time as Rod of Seven Parts
Effect is the same as Rod of Seven Parts, but does not have a unique number and does not grant access to subclass character cards.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70

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Last edit: by Iross.

2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #139

Endgame wrote:

Exbalz wrote: I think a pertinent question to ask for anyone that's posting with UR reprint ideas would be to stack rank your preferred reprints. UR Reprints by year:

2022: 2 (Noting Bead of Guided Strike as a key reprinted ability on a new token)
2021: 2
2020: 2
2019: 4
2018: 3

It seems reasonable to expect somewhere between 2-4 UR reprints per year. In this context, I would personally prioritize effects that are fairly unique, have been OOP 5+ years, and are difficult to find / prohibitively expensive to acquire:

1. Earcuff of Orbits (along with Endgame's suggested transmute path)
2. Runestone Fitting Base (perhaps with some new creative options)
3. +2 Sacred Sling (Or a functional equivalent for the Clerics)


I don't think it would be a bad thing if we had the occasional year with 6+ reprints. One great thing about reprints is that they open up options that are generally unavailable to new players, or even older players wanting to pickup something that isn't very available (ex: I want a +2 Sundering Cestus, but I'm not willing to pay more than pyp price for it) and they do it without creeping the game at all.

As for reprinting items that are legendary components, I'm not sure it yields all that many more legendary items. With the current routes to Legendary items, they are restricted by the number of relics made. A reprint to the +2 sacred Sling doesn't yield more Io's than relic bows made.


The issue is that several legendaries that are BiS now require items several years out of print. Viper, Io's, Surtr, etc.. Today, there are no armor or weapons that have components that are not out of print. The answer is fairly straightforward - a combination of reprints and adding new items to those transmute recipes. This year, for example, we could have substituted ravager items for the viper belt in the recipe and it would have, conceptually, made sense (not a perfect fit since viper belt was dex and ravager is bonus on range attack but they are related.) Then, next year, have a substitute for the viper shirt available. Put everything in a 7 year rotation. Some items would be true re-prints, while others wouldn't.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #140

Guedoji wrote:

Raven wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: In physical TD, Ektdar’s saves time.


^^ This. And even more so with the Rod of Persuasion.

I really enjoy doing the Rogue box, but I find I'm occasionally left out of the puzzle-solving if I'm stuck in a corner for 2-3 minutes (Longer if the DM needs to watch the party as they solve things, or reset something when they fail, and doesn't have time to supervise a lone Rogue). Sometimes I'll just use the Rod of Persuasion on the box so I can have more time to interact with a particularly cool puzzle, or I'll be glad for Ektdar's when we're in a room which will clearly take more time to solve than we've got on the clock, unless we get that clue to point us in the right direction.


Right, but that's what I mean about Ektdar's, it's not as good as Persuasion, it's kinda obsolete at this point now that Persuasion was printed, do we really need to use up a reprint on Ektdar's, or is Persuasion really a better replacement. Using Persuasion saves much more time, and the cost of HP is negligible. Seems like the better option for Rogues, no need for Ektdar's any more.


In person, I really like doing the rogue box. Ektdar is a good compromise between spending quite a bit more time solving it and blowing it off with the rod. Before getting it, I felt like I missed too much of the puzzle, now I can crank through the rogue box in about 15 seconds.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058

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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #141

Fred K wrote:

Guedoji wrote:

Raven wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: In physical TD, Ektdar’s saves time.


^^ This. And even more so with the Rod of Persuasion.

I really enjoy doing the Rogue box, but I find I'm occasionally left out of the puzzle-solving if I'm stuck in a corner for 2-3 minutes (Longer if the DM needs to watch the party as they solve things, or reset something when they fail, and doesn't have time to supervise a lone Rogue). Sometimes I'll just use the Rod of Persuasion on the box so I can have more time to interact with a particularly cool puzzle, or I'll be glad for Ektdar's when we're in a room which will clearly take more time to solve than we've got on the clock, unless we get that clue to point us in the right direction.


Right, but that's what I mean about Ektdar's, it's not as good as Persuasion, it's kinda obsolete at this point now that Persuasion was printed, do we really need to use up a reprint on Ektdar's, or is Persuasion really a better replacement. Using Persuasion saves much more time, and the cost of HP is negligible. Seems like the better option for Rogues, no need for Ektdar's any more.


In person, I really like doing the rogue box. Ektdar is a good compromise between spending quite a bit more time solving it and blowing it off with the rod. Before getting it, I felt like I missed too much of the puzzle, now I can crank through the rogue box in about 15 seconds.

Fred


Agree with this. For me, the biggest value of Ektdar's has always been that it lets me spend more time enjoying solving the room with everyone else.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current build: tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/54550c58-0964-4b14-af03-5c485ca2ef70

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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #142

Iross wrote:

Fred K wrote:

Guedoji wrote:

Raven wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: In physical TD, Ektdar’s saves time.


^^ This. And even more so with the Rod of Persuasion.

I really enjoy doing the Rogue box, but I find I'm occasionally left out of the puzzle-solving if I'm stuck in a corner for 2-3 minutes (Longer if the DM needs to watch the party as they solve things, or reset something when they fail, and doesn't have time to supervise a lone Rogue). Sometimes I'll just use the Rod of Persuasion on the box so I can have more time to interact with a particularly cool puzzle, or I'll be glad for Ektdar's when we're in a room which will clearly take more time to solve than we've got on the clock, unless we get that clue to point us in the right direction.


Right, but that's what I mean about Ektdar's, it's not as good as Persuasion, it's kinda obsolete at this point now that Persuasion was printed, do we really need to use up a reprint on Ektdar's, or is Persuasion really a better replacement. Using Persuasion saves much more time, and the cost of HP is negligible. Seems like the better option for Rogues, no need for Ektdar's any more.


In person, I really like doing the rogue box. Ektdar is a good compromise between spending quite a bit more time solving it and blowing it off with the rod. Before getting it, I felt like I missed too much of the puzzle, now I can crank through the rogue box in about 15 seconds.

Fred


Agree with this. For me, the biggest value of Ektdar's has always been that it lets me spend more time enjoying solving the room with everyone else.


Fair enough. I like doing the full box myself, and just save the Rod for if I fail, but I guess I can see value if someone still wants to do the box, but faster. I e had plenty of times I've missed on on puzzles while fiddling with the box.
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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #143

+2 Boomstick, it's a fun token.
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2023 Re-Print Ideas 6 months 1 week ago #144

Potion of Leaping Attack

It will be out of print 6 years since the last printing in 2017.
It has multiple uses beyond attacking flying character. I've leaped onto ledges and the roofs of buildings.
It's a burner so they are consumed and go away.
I'm running really low even after heavily stocking up in 2017. :dry:

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