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TOPIC: Finalish Transmuted Images

Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #1

Thanks for the feedback on these new ones. I hope they cause folks to re-think a bit about their builds.

truedungeon.com/files/Transmutedd.jpg
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Last edit: by Jeff Martin.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #2

On the boots, I believe most previous instances of negate 50% Miss Chance haven’t had the word “the” in front of the phrase.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #3

The cloak transmute path was +3 Saves UR, +4 Saves Relic, +6 Saves Legendary. With the UR and Relic having the same saves for the wrists, what would people think about making the Legendary +6 also?
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #4

I like the direction of the Boots and Bracelets.

I am not sure how appealing the bracelets are though:

Boaz's Bracelets of Luck = +5 to saves

Luna's Greater Charm Bracelets with:
1st extra charm = Lucky Charm
2nd extra charm = Questors Charm of Luck
3rd extra charm = Charm of Brooching + a cloak which probably gives at least +2 to saves
4th extra charm = Open
Is going to be better than +5 to saves and still offer an additional charm slot.

I think the problem here is not the item but the slot. I think the "of Luck" would do better in an Ioun, Bead, or Ring slot:

Ioun has +2 save URs
Bead has +2 save and free action relic, and +3 to a single save rares
Rings have +4 to a single save rares, and a +6 to 1 save and improved evasion legendary

I would be excited to see companion rings to Khing's Ring of Supreme Evasion for FORT, and for WILL, such as:

A Legendary Ring that gave +6 to Will Saves and the "Expertise" effect of using one class feature or spell without marking it off the card.

A Legendary Ring that gave +6 to FORT saves and immune to poison, disease, and stun
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #5

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As a wizard, I'll say that the only transmute I would be making out of this set would be the Arcanum shirt (well, and the treasure maps, of course). I would have made the bracelets if we didn't just get the Charm Bracelets last year. I'll also point out that not every year has to have things that appeal to everyone and I think it's crazy to try.

On the topic of the Charm Bracelets, combining the existence of both of these wrist items will put a constraint on the amount of saves a charm can have. If there were four +2 save vs all items like the Lucky Charm, you would have to be crazy to pick the save bracers over the charm. With the charm bracelet you could get +6 saves and still have an extra charm slot. The problem doesn't currently exist, because the only saves vs all charms are Lucky at +2 and Questor's +1, but it is something that would impact future designs.

I'm not saying that's a reason not to make them-there's nothing wrong with having design restrictions, in fact I encourage it-but it's something to be aware of in the discussion.

Similarly, I'm curious about the comparison between 4 extra charms (so the last four charms that you would equip in your build) vs +5 save vs all, especially since all of these tokens will be in print at the same time for a year. I suspect that might be a tougher comparison
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #6

It feels a little odd to be doing back-to-back bracelets for 2 years. I like Hayward's suggestions on this.

On the boots... Looking at the Legendary. That is a LOT of AC, available to all classes, in a slot that hasn't traditionally provided AC. Are we sure that is wise? In comparison, it is as much AC as Pern's provides (to 4 classes, with no other benefit), and almost as much as Giln's (again 4 classes and no other benefit). I could buy the argument that Feet may be a more powerful slot than Head or Offhand, but it still seems high to me, especially with the other benefits provided by the Boots. I'd suggest replacing the AC bonus with a much smaller Saves bonus (keeping the other benefits in place). Maybe +1 at UR, +2 at Relic, and +4 at Legendary. If you want to stick with the AC route, it should probably be class limited.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #7

I’m really not exactly excited about anything in this years set. I think these 2 new legendary’s probably will not interest too many people. Charm bracelet last this year and Boots of the 4 Winds are going to continue to dominate these slots given the higher power level.

I guess the one saving grace for this set is the Treasure enhancer and last shirt should drive sales.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #8

These boots are of vast interest to all my classes. The HP of my rare boots, or a lot of AC is very tempting. The cost is going to probably make the decision, if it fits into the “lower cost legendaries” that was being mention in L&L. Even the UR are a contemplation for the monk, would need to find another night item to fix the level potentially.

Archerin’s Gloves from L&L, with the 5//6/7 dex were significantly more interesting than these non charm bracelets. I have no intention of making luna’s, and these are in the same boat unless the recipie comes in low. Even the relic, while strong, would mean -2 damage from all of my classes except cleric, who would get -1 ac and -1 con? If it stays in the bracelets, why not pivot to 2 damage at UR, 3 at relic, 4 at legendary? The line from rare at those numbers would be semi logical, the power available in the game goes up, not as much as the charm bracelets with 8 str and 5 tokens.

Someone mentioned (maybe endgame) on discord applying the 3x crit kicker from the grieves to the Archerin’s glove legendary to increase interest. Dunno if it was ever posted here, there is a lot more to read than there was in L&L here, and I missed a cycle for sure. Rough gage on the recipie for these might give an idea, like “2019 like recipie” or “2014 like recipe” or “2011 like recipie”, if these are drastically out of line. A legendary wrist that isn’t as powerful as lunas might still be fine if the transmute is easier.

Side note, I understand also that “a 2014 recipie with a UR instead of the rare” is on brand now. I know that was a conversation a few years back, and I appreciate the URs that I don’t have to track as hard. I have three venom strike whatever still and I have to remember not to put them in my dp bag every time I run into them.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #9

Thanks for involving the community in feedback on these.

For the bracelets, I think +4 > +6 > +8 to saves would be a better progression from UR to Relic to Legendary. This is because they are competing with other bracelets which expand slots worth around +2 to saves per slot, so these new bracelets would need to be capable of providing the same-sized bonuses to be considered as an alternative for builds. Changing to 4/6/8 would still not offer the flexibility of the slot expanders, but would instead offer the ability to equip them in tandem with the other save-enhancing tokens which wouldn't be an option if a build has already equipped those tokens via slot expanders (plus it doesn't require you to own multiple URs to get a large save boost from the wrists slot).

It's very difficult to assess the power level of the boots as AC isn't valued highly in general, and they are competing with Bot4W for the slot. I think their power level is likely correct for Legendary level, I'm just not sure which builds would run them. More importantly though, this would give a timeless recipe for a pair of legendary boots, giving players who don't own Bot4W something they can aim for, so I like the boots and think this is a good set of tokens overall.
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Last edit: by Iross.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #10

Piggybacking on Matthew Hayward's idea
What if we reprint UR RoSS, and the relic adds +3 will save, while the legendary adds +6 will save?
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #11

I really like that the boots give a meaningful option to the Boots of Four Winds in the foot slot and a great path forward for new players that did not collect the Eldritch set.

I also really like the bracelets for folks that might not have as an extensive set of charms.

Having multiple build paths for higher level play is a good thing.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 7 months 3 weeks ago #12

NightGod wrote: As a wizard, I'll say that the only transmute I would be making out of this set would be the Arcanum shirt (well, and the treasure maps, of course). I would have made the bracelets if we didn't just get the Charm Bracelets last year. I'll also point out that not every year has to have things that appeal to everyone and I think it's crazy to try.

On the topic of the Charm Bracelets, combining the existence of both of these wrist items will put a constraint on the amount of saves a charm can have. If there were four +2 save vs all items like the Lucky Charm, you would have to be crazy to pick the save bracers over the charm. With the charm bracelet you could get +6 saves and still have an extra charm slot. The problem doesn't currently exist, because the only saves vs all charms are Lucky at +2 and Questor's +1, but it is something that would impact future designs.

I'm not saying that's a reason not to make them-there's nothing wrong with having design restrictions, in fact I encourage it-but it's something to be aware of in the discussion.

Similarly, I'm curious about the comparison between 4 extra charms (so the last four charms that you would equip in your build) vs +5 save vs all, especially since all of these tokens will be in print at the same time for a year. I suspect that might be a tougher comparison


That's one main reason why I'm glad Jeff went away from slot expander transmute paths this year. It's pretty tough to compete with a Legendary token that allows that many extra tokens to be equipped. I like the power level of these Bracelets, I think it will appeal to many people.

I like the "Marvel Comics Cosmic Awareness" look that the Arcanum Shirt has. Cosmic Shirt would have been a good name too. :)
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