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TOPIC: Finalish Transmuted Images

Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #13

Mike Steele wrote: I like the "Marvel Comics Cosmic Awareness" look that the Arcanum Shirt has. Cosmic Shirt would have been a good name too. :)


Jeff said all the set items would need the word "Arcanum" in them. I'm wondering if there is room for an extra word?

Cosmic Arcanum Shirt?
Arcanum Wonderous Shirt?

Maybe Arcanum is a person or group (like a coven?), so it could be possessive
Arcanum's Cosmic Shirt
The Arcanum's Wonderous Shirt

Piggybacking on Matthew Hayward's idea
What if we reprint UR RoSS, and the relic adds +3 will save, while the legendary adds +6 will save?

Another option would be doing a whole +saves ring? +2 saves UR, +4 saves Relic, +6 saves Legendary. It would be like wearing all 3 of the 4* rings at once, and would be an in theme legendary to release at the same time as the last +6 4* ring is released.

On the boots... Looking at the Legendary. That is a LOT of AC, available to all classes, in a slot that hasn't traditionally provided AC. Are we sure that is wise? In comparison, it is as much AC as Pern's provides (to 4 classes, with no other benefit), and almost as much as Giln's (again 4 classes and no other benefit).

I concur that its a LOT of AC and makes most of the redoubt items very sad, and even makes Rolland's look sad. Maybe trim down the AC to 2 or 3 tops? The text is getting crowded on the boots, so its hard to say add other things, but it could very well be small AC and Small saves with all the other stuff on it. Really Jack of All Trades type boots.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #14

I am happy you dropped the gloves, I feel they were a mistake.

Due to slot expansion and what is available as a charm the legendary luck bracelets are weaker then the relic charm bracelets from this year. Instead of making a stupid powerful token that can actually compete with the charm bracelets, I would move it to the ring slot. A +2 UR, +4 relic, and +6 to all saves legendary feels competitive.

The boots seem good to me. They are powerful but don’t feel totally broken, and people will actually have to consider their goals in using them or other existing boots.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #15

I'm glad the gloves were dropped. And I love the boots! I think it should read "...& No 50% Miss Chance vs. Incorporeal"
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #16

Thank you for dropping the gloves.

The boots look cool and I love the flavor of them being Barb Beard!
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #17

Mike Steele wrote:

NightGod wrote: As a wizard, I'll say that the only transmute I would be making out of this set would be the Arcanum shirt (well, and the treasure maps, of course). I would have made the bracelets if we didn't just get the Charm Bracelets last year. I'll also point out that not every year has to have things that appeal to everyone and I think it's crazy to try.

On the topic of the Charm Bracelets, combining the existence of both of these wrist items will put a constraint on the amount of saves a charm can have. If there were four +2 save vs all items like the Lucky Charm, you would have to be crazy to pick the save bracers over the charm. With the charm bracelet you could get +6 saves and still have an extra charm slot. The problem doesn't currently exist, because the only saves vs all charms are Lucky at +2 and Questor's +1, but it is something that would impact future designs.

I'm not saying that's a reason not to make them-there's nothing wrong with having design restrictions, in fact I encourage it-but it's something to be aware of in the discussion.

Similarly, I'm curious about the comparison between 4 extra charms (so the last four charms that you would equip in your build) vs +5 save vs all, especially since all of these tokens will be in print at the same time for a year. I suspect that might be a tougher comparison


That's one main reason why I'm glad Jeff went away from slot expander transmute paths this year. It's pretty tough to compete with a Legendary token that allows that many extra tokens to be equipped. I like the power level of these Bracelets, I think it will appeal to many people.

I like the "Marvel Comics Cosmic Awareness" look that the Arcanum Shirt has. Cosmic Shirt would have been a good name too. :)


Yes, I too am very glad Jeff went away from more slot expanders. They are crazy OP. Luna's will forever be slot locked, as the Charms continue to get better so will Luna's.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #18

I'm really glad the gloves are gone (too much +dmg far too soon after Muk's).

Regarding the save bracelets, and high-end slot contention in general... broadly I agree that forcing build choices is a good thing for game balance, but because legendary tokens are tough to craft,

1. Only x% of TD players would consider crafting a legendary at all
2. Only y% of TD players would consider crafting two incompatible legendaries for the same classes*
3. I'm not sure how small x is, but I'm pretty sure y is significantly smaller because
4. Nobody wants to craft a legendary and then regret it.

Personally, in practical terms, there's no chance I would ever craft both Luna's and Boaz's; if anything I would choose one to craft and wear it all the time. But if I feel like there's a good chance of an even better bracelet showing up in the next couple of years to outclass these, that frankly makes me less likely to craft either of them (better to just stay with relic or UR than end up regretting a legendary-level "investment" that turns out to be a bad bet). Other players will make this same calculation at different levels, of course, and be just as turned off by relics and URs getting outclassed by new tokens too soon.

In this case I don't think there's much risk of +5 saves outclassing +4 charms, which is good news in terms of not killing the goose that lays the golden egg but bad news in that I expect vanishingly few people would bother to make the +5 saves bracelet. FWIW Endgame's idea of a legendary +saves ring seems somewhat more promising to me since it's not completely incompatible with anything and Pharacus's was a long time ago.

* class-specific legendaries are a special case; I know up front that it's only for one class, so how much I want to make it is determined by how often I play that class and how much will it increase my fun each time I do. I'm making Druegar's this year because that's worth it to me, and I don't care how Druegar's compares with e.g. Benrow's, but it helps that I'm fairly confident there won't be a new neck legendary usable by Cleric next year that I would rather have instead. (If there is I would be super disappointed)
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #19

Not initially thrilled with the boots, but the more I think about them, the more I warm up to them. May not be the best for every player or class, but I can definitely see some positive arguments for it.

With the bracelets, I just struggle with "I just got Luna's and not sure I want or need a second item for the same slot". It's not that they're bad, it's just that Luna's is that good.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #20

Dave wrote: Not initially thrilled with the boots, but the more I think about them, the more I warm up to them. May not be the best for every player or class, but I can definitely see some positive arguments for it.

With the bracelets, I just struggle with "I just got Luna's and not sure I want or need a second item for the same slot". It's not that they're bad, it's just that Luna's is that good.


On top of the fact we saw a preview of a bead bracelet in the future. Why would anyone make the save bracelet? Especially when saves can come from almost any other slot currently.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #21

Rob F wrote: Yes, I too am very glad Jeff went away from more slot expanders. They are crazy OP. Luna's will forever be slot locked, as the Charms continue to get better so will Luna's.


Luna’s doesn’t have to be slot locked. A bead expander, IS expander, or combo expander in wrist slot would have people making different options
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #22

There are various slots with no legendary. Why create yet another legendary in fingers slot which has 4 already?

Eyes isn't terrible, though it also comes on the heels of Deadshot. IS wasn't bad. At some point, legs and shirt, but Dungeonbane is readily available and Arcanum is new.

I'm actually unclear on the problem with IS regen path. The comment about not including wizzes just sounded like a joke, so didn't seem overpowered. If underpowered, well, not every token can be the best token ever. From comments I've seen, including Discord, sounded like it was of interest to enough people that it wasn't going to be irrelevant.
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #23

I'm not excited about these relics and legenaries. Also we just got a legendary bracelets this year (actually there are 2 now). I'd much rather have another slot.
Classes Played: Barbarian (46 times), Monk (45), Ranger (27), Rogue (21), Cleric (19), Fighter (12), Dwarf Fighter (9), Druid (7), Paladin (7), Bard (6), Elf Wizard (2), Wizard (2)
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Finalish Transmuted Images 4 months 1 week ago #24

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Yes, I too am very glad Jeff went away from more slot expanders. They are crazy OP. Luna's will forever be slot locked, as the Charms continue to get better so will Luna's.


Luna’s doesn’t have to be slot locked. A bead expander, IS expander, or combo expander in wrist slot would have people making different options


Not it wouldn't. Another expander would just go on the other wrist. So for God's sake please NO bead/stone wrist expanders. All they do is kill the current slot. For another Token to compete with an expander, in this case Luna's, it has to be better than FOUR other Tokens. Not going to happen. Create another four slot wrist expander and the wrist slot is dead, just characters walking through the dungeon with a bunch of Charms and Stones/Beads.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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