TOPIC: Final Ultra Rare Token Images

I disagree with Mike here, if you make the Ring +3 it's going to go into the "why bother" pile. It only works for certain spells, and only if you take the time and effort of actually making the skill check. If you nerf the Ring that hard people are going to not bother with it versus options that work on all things, all the time. For a 5th level cleric, across all spells it currently barely breaks even with a +2 Focus ring.

Skill check ring seems good to me. Doesn't seem like it needs to be nerfed because equipping it means you're foregoing a different ring that likely gives you +2/3 to every spell.

Getting +5 to some spells seems like just enough incentive to equip it.

Endgame wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Actually, overlooked the obvious.

Restrict the Gauntlets to Cleric, Druid, and Paladin. That justifies being strictly better.

It doesn't make a ton of sense that ranger gets bonuses to healing, for one thing.

And Fighters, because they are fighters

The more I think about it, due to how most classes don't actually have healing spells, would make far more sense to be a cleric only token.

FWIW, I thought Acherin's ring was close. Maybe +1 saves plus auto pass one save per game

Powerblade3 wrote: I disagree with Mike here, if you make the Ring +3 it's going to go into the "why bother" pile. It only works for certain spells, and only if you take the time and effort of actually making the skill check. If you nerf the Ring that hard people are going to not bother with it versus options that work on all things, all the time. For a 5th level cleric, across all spells it currently barely breaks even with a +2 Focus ring.

Fair point for the Cleric, but the Wizard has 10 skill check damage spells, plus several tokens increasing that amount. The most I believe any UR Rings currently add to spell damage is +2, having this at +5 for 10 of 14 Wizard damage spells (and many Wizards will make the skill check 90+% of the time) is a HUGE power leap.

Powerblade3 wrote: I disagree with Mike here, if you make the Ring +3 it's going to go into the "why bother" pile. It only works for certain spells, and only if you take the time and effort of actually making the skill check. If you nerf the Ring that hard people are going to not bother with it versus options that work on all things, all the time. For a 5th level cleric, across all spells it currently barely breaks even with a +2 Focus ring.

Oh...math, let's do it.

Edit: so Ring of Focus is actually on +1 focus (forgot it scales1/3/5, so that messes the math up). So let's compare it to Great Ring of Focus (+3) instead.

Equipping : Greater Ring of Focus - Casting all spells effected

Cleric effects 12 spells = 36 healing or damage
Druid effects 14 = 42 healing or damage
Elf effects 12 = 36 damage
Wizard effects 14 = 42 damage

Equipping Ring of the Savant casting all spell effected and 100% on skill tests
Cleric effects 6 = 30 healing or damage
Druid effects 8 = 40 healing or damage
Elf effects 9 = 45 damage
Wizard effects 10 = 50 damage

Compare to Greater Ring of Focus by -6 to +8 more healing/or damage. So better than a relic for Wizards.

Equipping Ring of the Savant (nerfed to +4)
Cleric effects 6 = 24 healing or damage
Druid effects 8 = 32 healing or damage
Elf effects 9 = 36 damage
Wizard effects 10 = 40 damage

Compared to Greater Ring of Focus by -12 to -2 healing and/or damage. So less effective than a relic.

Seems better at +4 to me, now agree +3 not enough. Also this item is much better for Wizards than Clerics.

Ring of the savant still isn't enough damage to get me to spend time doing skill checks. I will equip something else and keep skipping them.
Maybe at +10?

I will agree that Level 0 spells for Wizards is *potentially* too much. I thought about having Level 0 spells not apply, but then it kind of swings the other way and barely helps Wizards at all. I think people also need to consider the fact that skill checks take time, which is a valuable and finite resource, so it's not entirely fair to compare it apples to apples to effects that let you skip the skill check if desired.

Edit: Kurt pretty much beat me to part of my point, people actually have to do the skill checks for this bonus, which is not a non-factor.

David Harris wrote: Oh...math, let's do it.

Equipping +2 Ring of Focus: Casting all spells effected

Cleric effects 12 spells = 24 healing or damage
Druid effects 14 = 28 healing or damage
Elf effects 12 = 24 healing or damage
Wizard effects 14 = 28 healing or damage

Equipping Ring of the Savant casting all spell effected and 100% on skill tests
Cleric effects 6 = 30 healing or damage
Druid effects 8 = 40 healing or damage
Elf effects 9 = 45 damage
Wizard effects 10 = 50 damage

So an improvement over +2 ring of focus by 6 to 22 more healing/or damage.

Equipping Ring of the Savant (nerfed to +4)
Cleric effects 6 = 24 healing or damage
Druid effects 8 = 32 healing or damage
Elf effects 9 = 36 damage
Wizard effects 10 = 40 damage

An improvement over +3 ring of focus by 0 to 12 more healing and/or damage.

Seems better at +4 to me, now agree +3 not enough. Also this item is much better for Wizards than Clerics.

I appreciate the effort to math it, but it's more complicated based on how people actually behave. While I'm not just concerned with trying to max out damage, I don't need to cast 0 level wizard spells when running the likes of Ashenne's.

The more people math it out, though, that +3 isn't enough, more persuaded I am that it should be higher than +3.

This shouldn't just be looked at on how it impacts BIS Wizard builds. It is probably proportionally even more overpowered for lower end Wizard builds.

My half UR+ build right now has me wearing a Ring of Fervor and Greater Ring of Havoc. At a +5 for passed skill checks, I would totally swap out my fervor. I like skill checks, I'm good at skill checks in VTD and PTD, and that bonus would be worth it. Less than +5 would make it harder to justify the PYP price to replace the fervor that I drew from treasure.

Rachel Stemm wrote: My half UR+ build right now has me wearing a Ring of Fervor and Greater Ring of Havoc. At a +5 for passed skill checks, I would totally swap out my fervor. I like skill checks, I'm good at skill checks in VTD and PTD, and that bonus would be worth it. Less than +5 would make it harder to justify the PYP price to replace the fervor that I drew from treasure.

Thank you for your perspective and weighing in on your build, much appreciated.

Assuming you are a Wizard or Elf, so at +5 you would get up to +36 damage as Wizard or +33 as an Elf, over Ring of Fervor. If it was reduced to +4 you would still get up +26/24 more damage over Ring of Fervor.