TOPIC: 2023 Transmuted Recipes Proposals

Cary Kelly wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Cary Kelly wrote: When Jeff talked about this year’s Relics and Legendaries being more for newer players and opening up the fun of transmuting - I was imagining more attainable levels of trade goods. I’m disappointed that didn’t turn out to be the case - especially with relics/Legendaries aimed at players without year’s worth of equipment that are more usable than these.

Sadly that’s not the case - and I can’t imagine being a newer player with the cost of these pieces.

I remember when my group discovered we could do with all these tokens we had started to pool that we’d never use - then trying to see what we were close to making. Yea the Legendaries were “pie in the sky” - but we could work to making a relic or 2. Not with these types of recipes. These seem aimed at the “token whales” only - 30+ and 20+ amounts would seem unattainable to newer players.

I really hope they look to making some more accessible relics in the future - they don’t have to be crazy powerful best in slot but useful to newer players starting to gather larger collections of tokens.

As it is - I can cross off the Boots and Bead from my UR wish list as there’s no way I can afford that many resources on something to loan out to new players. I don’t own BoFW - but I’m happy with my Boots of the Marauder and Bead of Lucky Traveller compared to the prices shown here.

What I have a bit of trouble understanding are the posts (not just yours but others) about these transmute costs being unfriendly/unattainable to "newer" players? If Trent 2.0 does their first run at Gen Con this year and gets hooked, they are going to drop mad cash to start their Token addiction, regardless of them being a newer player. So I don't see how the amount of trade goods in transmute recipes directly impacts newer players, it all depends on the newer player's financial situation.

You’re right it does depend on each individuals financial situation - I would think more people have less of a disposable income for a hobby in general compared to those I labeled as “token whales” - just like in a casino there are the few that can afford anything and then the general masses. I spent years splitting $250 orders and just getting treasure from my runs and it was a slower but steady move to building my first relics (and if not for tremendous luck during V1 thru V5 I still would be grinding towards my first non-CoA Legendary).

I had friends start years later and they jumped right in and bought up Relics, Legendaries and Rods of 7 parts. They didn’t bother with trying to save up and make their Relics, etc - they just bought them up and therefore the Transmute costs were meaningless to them. These people aren’t going to be buying trade goods to transmute - or even $8k orders to get goods to transmute - they’ll just wait and purchase.

I’m drawing on my own experiences as well as talking with more casual players to express how I think these will be perceived by newer players - obviously every person is different.

So ultimately it depends on who TD is trying to target with the Transmute recipes (which is why a few people asked what is the TD philosophy for transmutes so we can better judge/give opinions).

And after seeing the updated recipes - these seem much more attainable for newer players. This seems more in line with what the casual player might be picking up as they get more involved.

Like you mentioned it would be nice to know who TD is trying to target with the transmute recipes? I have friends that still play TD who at one time were new players but they never got hooked on Tokens (how that didn't happen is beyond me). Most of my friends who travel with me to Gen Con and play TD are doing it for the fun of the run and they don't care much about Tokens. They use the low to maybe mid level ones they've acquired over the years and are fine with them. For them it's mostly about experiencing the cool new dungeons and to a much lesser extent gearing up their characters. So for that group the transmute recipes aren't really that important. In fact what's more important to them is how much the runs themselves cost which is a whole nother topic.

I look at it this way, if your a new casual player then Relics and Legendaries aren't for you anyway, they're designed to suck the money out of the hardcore veterans. If your new or casual the Greens, Reds and occasional Purple are what you should be looking at. From there if you find yourself wanting better Tokens then sell your house, car, and maybe a few of your kids in order to raise the cash that you'll need for them.

I think the recipes are much more reasonable now. Thanks for being open to feedback.

I'd still like to understand the reasoning behind not having a shirt of focus alt recipe for the arcanum shirt.

Picc wrote: I'd still like to understand the reasoning behind not having a shirt of focus alt recipe for the arcanum shirt.

Ditto.

I am not exactly sure how long this has been up, but it does say: "At the end of the four years, all four of these exact shirts (no substitutions) can be combined so they make one Shirt that gives +2 to all three physical stats and +2 Focus."
truedungeon.com/multi-year

balthasar wrote: I am not exactly sure how long this has been up, but it does say: "At the end of the four years, all four of these exact shirts (no substitutions) can be combined so they make one Shirt that gives +2 to all three physical stats and +2 Focus."
truedungeon.com/multi-year

Apparently that has been there awhile, and I'd guess it was phrased that way to specifically rule out the Shirt of Focus, since I don't think there are any other shirts that could reasonably be alternates. I don't think it was there back when the Shirt of Focus was orderable.

It would still be nice to know why the Shirt of Focus isn't an alternate, since to at least some people there was some indication from Jeff when the Shirt of Focus was still orderable that the Shirt of Focus or a functional reprint would be the 4th Shirt. It seems like there is enough grey area TD would err on the side of caution and make it an alternate.

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: I am not exactly sure how long this has been up, but it does say: "At the end of the four years, all four of these exact shirts (no substitutions) can be combined so they make one Shirt that gives +2 to all three physical stats and +2 Focus."
truedungeon.com/multi-year

Apparently that has been there awhile, and I'd guess it was phrased that way to specifically rule out the Shirt of Focus, since I don't think there are any other shirts that could reasonably be alternates. I don't think it was there back when the Shirt of Focus was orderable.

It would still be nice to know why the Shirt of Focus isn't an alternate, since to at least some people there was some indication from Jeff when the Shirt of Focus was still orderable that the Shirt of Focus or a functional reprint would be the 4th Shirt. It seems like there is enough grey area TD would err on the side of caution and make it an alternate.

However many shirts of Focus we are all sitting on will now hit the secondary market for newer players.

The answer we've gotten is that it's been this way for at least 2 years..

I think that's the only answer we are going to get, let's discuss the other recipes please.

Or not, but don't expect it to change.

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

balthasar wrote: I am not exactly sure how long this has been up, but it does say: "At the end of the four years, all four of these exact shirts (no substitutions) can be combined so they make one Shirt that gives +2 to all three physical stats and +2 Focus."
truedungeon.com/multi-year

Apparently that has been there awhile, and I'd guess it was phrased that way to specifically rule out the Shirt of Focus, since I don't think there are any other shirts that could reasonably be alternates. I don't think it was there back when the Shirt of Focus was orderable.

It would still be nice to know why the Shirt of Focus isn't an alternate, since to at least some people there was some indication from Jeff when the Shirt of Focus was still orderable that the Shirt of Focus or a functional reprint would be the 4th Shirt. It seems like there is enough grey area TD would err on the side of caution and make it an alternate.

However many shirts of Focus we are all sitting on will now hit the secondary market for newer players.

The answer we've gotten is that it's been this way for at least 2 years..

I think that's the only answer we are going to get, let's discuss the other recipes please.

Or not, but don't expect it to change.

Ultimately TPTB can do whatever they want, and I get that page has been up for a while. I would just like to understand the why since it seems an out of character move that will probably irritate some population of players needlessly. They can choose to answer or not, inexplicably that seems to have been the line they've taken before when asked about this topic, but we wont get any answers if we don't ask the questions.

There's no reason not to allow the existing obsoleted shirt of focus as a part of the transmute outside of pushing players to buy more tokens, which isn't a great look.

Previously when an older token has been obsoleted by a new release they've offered a trade in. If they don't want to let a non shirt in the Arcanum transmute maybe offer a swap of the Shirt of Focus for the new shirt like they've done a few times before.

I thought TPTB already said the Shirt of Focus will not be an option for a transmute path. I know people bought some years back on the assumption it might be used, but wasn't this already addressed in the previous transmute thread?

The only Token I recall TPTB saying would be used in a future transmute was the AoTF. But that was years ago and I think I saw some recent posts which made me believe even that could have changed.

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills...

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: There's no reason not to allow the existing obsoleted shirt of focus as a part of the transmute outside of pushing players to buy more tokens, which isn't a great look.

Previously when an older token has been obsoleted by a new release they've offered a trade in. If they don't want to let a non shirt in the Arcanum transmute maybe offer a swap of the Shirt of Focus for the new shirt like they've done a few times before.

. Sorry which tokens have had a trade in options that were made obsolete. I can only think of one maybe. Not saying there aren’t more but I don’t remember but maybe one. There have been at least 3 trade in for nerfs, Cloak of Shadowskin, Lenses of Divine Sight and Mad Evoker’s Charm.

jedibcg wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: There's no reason not to allow the existing obsoleted shirt of focus as a part of the transmute outside of pushing players to buy more tokens, which isn't a great look.

Previously when an older token has been obsoleted by a new release they've offered a trade in. If they don't want to let a non shirt in the Arcanum transmute maybe offer a swap of the Shirt of Focus for the new shirt like they've done a few times before.

. Sorry which tokens have had a trade in options that were made obsolete. I can only think of one maybe. Not saying there aren’t more but I don’t remember but maybe one. There have been at least 3 trade in for nerfs, Cloak of Shadowskin, Lenses of Divine Sight and Mad Evoker’s Charm.

Gloves of Dexterity was one. Can't remember the name of the second one.