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TOPIC: Safehold Program Thoughts?

Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #73

And, yet, by every appearance, the people who put money into the game are either fine with or actively encourage widening that gap. Every new token that is just better than the peak of old. Every new slot. Every consolidation of effects into a single slot. Every new TE that widens the treasure gap.

Unless somehow new stuff builds in a different direction than more of the same, where that might not be appealing to the already invested players and, thus, not really produce gains for TDA, it's unclear what stems the tide.

The idea that Safeholds generate trade goods is interesting. Even small autoproduction might make people feel good. So, someone generates 100gp every something another from their banking safehold. Someone else gets a DP from their well forested safehold. Someone else has looms. Someone else forges. At a low enough level of TG production could avoid oversupplying to further warp the economy.
Last edit: by Ian Lee.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #74

I love the idea of strongholds generating a small level of trade goods. I wouldn't mind seeing them generate those goods and place them into a pool for new player use (ie: players under level X can use them, etc) while the stronghold owners maybe get something else, like a patron run equivalent or something - something that serves as a storyline intro or supplementary content, even if it were shortform (2-3 rooms).
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #75

Jamie Campbell wrote: Ok. Just a different take on Safe hold

Safehold could be five levels of “deposit” where as a player I assign some of my tokens to it. For example let’s say a safehold I (one) would provided storage for five slots. I submit to TDHQ my five tokens (the five TEs) and I receive a safehold I with a unique RFID/number representing it. Now in conjunction with the app, I can look up my safehold ID and the five tokens can be placed on my character. At the epilogue, I can proof by showing the safehold. TDHQ becomes the bank depository for tokens.

II(two) could be 8 tokens
III(three) could be 10 tokens
Etc

This gives a great benefit to players without having gap for newer players unable to catch up. It is a cool thing too in that TDHQ has the depository of tokens against the safehold and can do banking things like not needing to print another Bo4W because they have them on deposit in other safehold


As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #76

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.
Last edit: by Kusig.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #77

Kusig wrote:

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.


I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #78

Endgame wrote:
I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.



I definitely like the ability to store trade goods and such in a Safehold. +1 to this idea as long as it can be tracked online in some way.

I also wouldn't want to assume someone has all of a certain rarity or below. You would still need to own the tokens just would be an honor system for verification much as it is now for VTD.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #79

Endgame wrote:

Kusig wrote:

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.


I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.


I LOVE the idea of presuming ownership of all tokens rare and below...so long as it presumes you have multiple. I would want my safehold to have things like ioun stone beryl prism for myself AND wife (and kids, eventually). If the safehold only counts as 1 of each, it doesn't actually help much for people who equip multiple players.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #80

kurtreznor wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Kusig wrote:

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.


I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.


I LOVE the idea of presuming ownership of all tokens rare and below...so long as it presumes you have multiple. I would want my safehold to have things like ioun stone beryl prism for myself AND wife (and kids, eventually). If the safehold only counts as 1 of each, it doesn't actually help much for people who equip multiple players.

If we assume that each level of safehold costs about a legendary to transmute, and you have to do it in sequence, you'd have about 3 legendaries tied up with a safehold. If you can afford 3 legendaries worth of trade goods, I imagine you could afford 3 IS Beryl Prisms :D

I guess with rares, the only place it might be sketchy would be on completion tokens and vol rares as those are a little more valuable. I suppose you could amend the above safehold statement to specify that it be "standard pack" .

ex:
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all non consumable standard pack rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Last edit: by Endgame.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #81

What about separating this by slot rather than rarity? I think that might help to give the feeling of having specific Holdings within your land. Having a Cobbler gives you access to any C/UC/R standard pack tokens that equip in the foot slot. A leatherworker might do the same for belts, a glover for the hand slot, an armorer for torso, a bowyer for ranged weapons, etc. I like the idea of being able to construct specific buildings on my land if I'm a Safehold owner.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #82

Endgame wrote:

Kusig wrote:

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.


I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.


It seems like presuming someone owns all of a particular rarity of token eliminates the need for that person to ever buy tokens of that rarity again, and would give them ownership of valuable older tokens of that rarity. That seems counter-productive for True Dungeon.
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #83

Jason Brown wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Corbin Waters wrote: The more I think on Safeholds and read people's various ideas, the more I start to feel like I'm falling further and further behind the curve as a newer player coming into True Dungeon, and that's even after investing money into the game outside of just purchasing VTD tickets. I still definitely enjoy playing True Dungeon and will certainly continue to do so in some capacity; I'm just honestly a bit concerned with how much new stuff seems to be coming along that I'm almost certainly going to be locked out of for the forseeable future if not permanently.

It also, honestly, feels a bit NFT-Adjacent which is always a huge negative for me in any space, but without the details of how they are going to work that's just a hunch based on the fact that land is being sold in a game so it's a bit of an unfounded concern at the moment.


I do understand what you're saying, it does seem like the gap between the top and bottom in TD is getting larger and larger. It's been getting larger consistently almost since the beginning, but seems to be picking up the pace. I hope the Safeholds don't create too much of a gap between land holders and non-land holders.


The escalating power gap is a very real thing. As someone who has been playing every year since 2003 (currently at max possible xp), who has spent around $50,000 on tokens over the years, I still feel like a newbie when I run with a maxed-out Nightmare Patron group. I can't fathom what it's like for actual newer players. I certainly wouldn't want Strongholds to make that gap a whole lot wider.


I'd have been totally happy if the token power level, or even the tokens themselves, were frozen at, for example, 2007. I know that would be a pretty terrible business model for True Dungeon though. ;)
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Safehold Program Thoughts? 1 year 3 months ago #84

Mike Steele wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Kusig wrote:

David Zych wrote: As someone who maintains both NM/Epic and Normal builds for 11 classes to ensure that I'm always prepared for any PUG run, and is sufficiently lawful-good IRL to faithfully obey the Gotta Bring Em All rule, I love the idea of anything that would make in-person play more convenient.

I'll differ from Jamie's example by saying that I personally would be just fine with *excluding* TEs from this, since in practice TEs are the one thing that actually does need to get verified regularly. A safehold that officially permits me to equip non-consumable non-TE tokens I own without having to carry them would be very appealing. Higher levels could grant higher rarity (C/UC/R, then 3*/4*, then UR, etc)


+1 to not having to carry boatloads of tokens through the Dungeon. I would however not want Safeholds to replace physically having tokens or using TD as a bank of sorts since that can get into a logistical nightmare. Much like we have an honor system now for VTD Safehold could enable that to some extend in PTD. Where if I have a safehold I don't have to bring my non TE on the dungeon run itself (notable exceptions being if I plan to use a subclass and need it to be validated). Could there be potential abuse from players by this? Yes but the same is true for VTD in its current state.

Obviously, you would need to bring your TE / Weapon / Consumables you were planning to use on the run along with anything that enables them to be used without being turned in.


I mean, if this was really something desirable, how about this:
Each level of safehold costs appx a legendary to transmute.
Level I: The owner of this safehold token is presumed to own all common tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level II: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold I and is presumed to own all uncommon tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level III: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold II and is presumed to own all rare tokens, and does not need to carry them through the dungeon.
Level IV: The owner of this safehold token gains the benefit of Safehold III and trade goods may be deposited directly into the safe hold and the owner may withdraw trade goods from the safehold by using the safehold number on the transmute form.


It seems like presuming someone owns all of a particular rarity of token eliminates the need for that person to ever buy tokens of that rarity again, and would give them ownership of valuable older tokens of that rarity. That seems counter-productive for True Dungeon.

What standard pack rare is so powerful that it’s in a UR+ build? What standard pack rare is so expensive you could justify a transmute to obtain it over just buying it on the secondary market.

If a future Rare would be so powerful as to be worth the transmute cost, we need to seriously look at the token dev process to prevent creep.
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