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TOPIC: Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024

Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #85

Ian Lee wrote: I think the interest was in an actual build rather than theoretical build that deals 80 without critting.

I'm sure if basically build entirely for damage can come up with absurd damage output, but I think it's more productive to have actual played builds used as examples rather than what's possible, as not everyone only cares about damage output, not everyone has every token, etc.


My personal build : it is +41 damage with better than a +20 to hit and no save worse than 20.
Sneak base damage is 43. Here is the math…
Base 43+weapon (av 6-8) plus 20 sneak. That yields around 50 plus 20 sneak. Typically, I’ll have bardsong running for an additional 4. I can sacrifice on saves and add another 6 base damage (more by the end of the year.) that yields between 70 and 80 base damage. Sneak yields are (base+weapon+bardsong)*3+20. Fairly routine damage above 200. In-person, crit slide rate are about 70+%. VTD, sneak crit rtes are about 15%.

2023 Ranged Rogue
Class: Rogue

STR: 14
DEX: 46
CON: 20
INT: 16
WIS: 11
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 6 Damage: 13 AC: 29

Range:
Hit: 22 Damage: 41 AC: 29 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 30 Heal: 12 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 41 Fort: 25 Will: 20

Treasure:
Min: 4 Max: 4

Health: 70

Damage Reduction:
MeleeRangeSpellFireColdShockSonicEldritchPoisonDarkriftSacred
0441219121002120

Melee Mainhand: Nightshade’s +2 Short Sword
Melee Offhand: Brawler’s Horn
Ranged Mainhand: +2 Assassin’s Crossbow
Ranged Offhand: Empty
Head: Cranston’s Helpful Hat
Eyes: Lenses of Agility
Eyes: Lenses of Hunting
Left Ear: Earcuff of Orbits
Right Ear: Icecrag Hero’s Earcuff
Neck: Raphiel’s Sneaky Necklace
Bead: Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Bead: Bead of Guided Strike
Bead: Boaz’s Bead of Whispers
Torso: Aron’s Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Luna’s Greater Charm Bracelets
Hands: Gloves of Greater Archery
Back: Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny
Back: Cloak of the Footpad
Ring: Muk’s Greater Ring of Havoc (Ranged)
Ring: Ring of the Yeti
Ring: Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Waist: Belt of the Deadshot
Waist: Belt of the Leopard
Shirt: Arcanum Shirt
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane - Dexterity
Shins: Greaves of Absorption
Boots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Panther
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Dragon
Charm: Charm of Brooching
Charm: Charm of Glory
Charm: Charm of Champion’s Choice (Dexterity)
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm: Charm of the Wind
Charm: Greater Garnet Charm
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Banshee Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Kyanite Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Mystic Orb
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Elfstone Shard
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Violet Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone of Champion’s Choice (Dexterity)
Slotless: +2 Rod of Persuasion (Slotless)
Slotless: Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: Alchemist Purse
Slotless: Ash's Death Pouch
Slotless: Canteen of Quaffing
Slotless: Censer of Sacrifice
Slotless: Drinking Horn of Bliss
Slotless: Druegar’s Death Die
Slotless: Ektdar’s Tinkering Tool
Slotless: Enchanter’s Whetstone
Slotless: Flask of Sharing
Slotless: Greater Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: Greater Arcane Scroll Tube
Slotless: Horn of Blasting
Slotless: Horn of Calling
Slotless: Horn of Rally
Slotless: Horn of the Blessed Ox
Slotless: Horn of the Valkyrie
Slotless: Kvothe’s Bloodless
Slotless: Lamp of the Efreeti
Slotless: Lamp of the Marid
Slotless: Libram of Looting
Slotless: Lotus Blossom Bowls
Slotless: Masterwork Thieves’ Tools
Slotless: Medallion of Nobility
Slotless: Minotaur Horn of Alert
Slotless: Pouch of Tulz
Slotless: Quiver of Anointment
Slotless: Semi-Lich Skull
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Soul Coffer
Slotless: Soul Jar
Slotless: Sea Dragon Scroll Tube
Slotless: Tankard of Celebration
Slotless: Skull of Cavadar
Slotless: 50 GP Ebony Scroll Tube
Slotless: Arcane Scroll Tube
Slotless: Bone Scroll Case
Slotless: Carter’s Tome of Insight
Slotless: Auri’s Candle
Slotless: Harlax’s Helpful Lamp
Slotless: Badge of Nobility
Slotless: Eldest Orb of Dragonkind (Constitution)
Slotless: Pitcher of Health
Slotless: Grunnel’s Funnel
Slotless: Totem of Heroism
Slotless: Folio of Deftness
Slotless: Hitchhiking Ghost: Shog
[
8note:I usually us the foot ghost rather than waist to get the rd sneak attack.
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

Elf Wizard build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=570&id=247398

Rogue build
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=569&id=245490#287189

Items for Sale or Trade
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=583&id=247555

Items needed to complete my collection
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253058
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #86

Fred K wrote:
My personal build : it is +41 damage with better than a +20 to hit and no save worse than 20.
Sneak base damage is 43. Here is the math…
Base 43+weapon (av 6-8) plus 20 sneak. That yields around 50 plus 20 sneak. Typically, I’ll have bardsong running for an additional 4. I can sacrifice on saves and add another 6 base damage (more by the end of the year.) that yields between 70 and 80 base damage. Sneak yields are (base+weapon+bardsong)*3+20. Fairly routine damage above 200. In-person, crit slide rate are about 70+%. VTD, sneak crit rtes are about 15%.
[
8note:I usually us the foot ghost rather than waist to get the rd sneak attack.


This is a good build. Since the third Sneak Attack per combat comes from a consumable, only works in a room with multiple enemies, and you mentioned a 70% crit rate in person, I'll go ahead and assume you'll crit with an average of 2 Sneak Attacks per combat.

So a damage modifier of +41, plus the average damage of 6.3 from the Assassin's Crossbow, will deal 142 damage on a crit plus another 20 from the Sneak Attack, or in other words 162 total. On a non-Sneak Attack round, assuming you don't slide a natural 20 you'll deal around 47 damage. Taking a 3-round combat as an example, this gives an average of (162+162+47)/3, or 124 damage per turn which will then continue to drop off if the combat lasts longer than 3 rounds or if for any reason one of the Sneak Attacks failed to land a crit.

Is 124 damage per turn from a BiS Epic build over 3 turns a large amount of damage? Certainly. Is it enough to cause problems for the game and require a fix? I'm having trouble seeing it. There are multiple other classes which can hit these numbers. Monk and Ranger can consistently slide for over 100 damage. Barbarian can hit over 100 damage via the use of Rage, or will simply outdamage the Rogue if they miss one or both of their crits. Wizards can deal colossal amounts of damage if a room has multiple targets in it. And again, if the combat lasts longer than 3 rounds or the Rogue misses/gets bumped off a crit then the Rogue's damage output will continue to drop off. Not only that, but because of how Assassin's Crossbow works, it becomes worse and worse compared to other weapons the lower your damage bonus is - as mentioned in Wayne's detailed post previously, Assassin's Crossbow is no better than other weapons unless your damage modifier exceeds +20, so even if it were to be considered a problem, it would still only only be applicable to Nightmare and Epic Rogue builds, a minority of the player base.

Additionally, as you've correctly pointed out, Rogues just don't slide crits very often in VTD, which means that Rogues will not hit these numbers during half of the events in a year.

On a more general note, I've seen a suggestion a few times to reprint Assassin's Crossbow but make it only crit on a natural 20. If that were to happen, it'd simply no longer see any play and Rogues would use Nightshade's Throwing Dagger instead as it would be a significantly better weapon which is readily available. At that point, the reprinted Assassin's Crossbow would be a dead PYP with little value to it.

I'm aware of the suggestion of a transmute path to a legendary Assassin's Crossbow with the original ability, but it's not clear to me how this would help the game. If Assassin's Crossbow is already a problem, why create an improved, legendary version of it? If Assassin's Crossbow is not already a problem, why nerf the UR version in favor of a transmuted one? That's not fixing a balance issue, it's just charging Rogue players $$$ if they want to keep using it.
I play Rogue. Occasionally I even play Rogue well.

Current Rogue Build
Last edit: by Iross.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #87

Fred K wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: I think the interest was in an actual build rather than theoretical build that deals 80 without critting.

I'm sure if basically build entirely for damage can come up with absurd damage output, but I think it's more productive to have actual played builds used as examples rather than what's possible, as not everyone only cares about damage output, not everyone has every token, etc.


My personal build : it is +41 damage with better than a +20 to hit and no save worse than 20.
Sneak base damage is 43. Here is the math…
Base 43+weapon (av 6-8) plus 20 sneak. That yields around 50 plus 20 sneak. Typically, I’ll have bardsong running for an additional 4. I can sacrifice on saves and add another 6 base damage (more by the end of the year.) that yields between 70 and 80 base damage. Sneak yields are (base+weapon+bardsong)*3+20. Fairly routine damage above 200. In-person, crit slide rate are about 70+%. VTD, sneak crit rtes are about 15%.

2023 Ranged Rogue
Class: Rogue

STR: 14
DEX: 46
CON: 20
INT: 16
WIS: 11
CHA: 20

Melee:
Hit: 6 Damage: 13 AC: 29

Range:
Hit: 22 Damage: 41 AC: 29 Missle AC: 0

Spell:
Damage: 30 Heal: 12 Resist: 0

Saves:
Reflex: 41 Fort: 25 Will: 20

Treasure:
Min: 4 Max: 4

Health: 70

Damage Reduction:
MeleeRangeSpellFireColdShockSonicEldritchPoisonDarkriftSacred
0441219121002120

Melee Mainhand: Nightshade’s +2 Short Sword
Melee Offhand: Brawler’s Horn
Ranged Mainhand: +2 Assassin’s Crossbow
Ranged Offhand: Empty
Head: Cranston’s Helpful Hat
Eyes: Lenses of Agility
Eyes: Lenses of Hunting
Left Ear: Earcuff of Orbits
Right Ear: Icecrag Hero’s Earcuff
Neck: Raphiel’s Sneaky Necklace
Bead: Bead of the Lucky Traveler
Bead: Bead of Guided Strike
Bead: Boaz’s Bead of Whispers
Torso: Aron’s Sunhide Robe
Wrist: Luna’s Greater Charm Bracelets
Hands: Gloves of Greater Archery
Back: Pharacus’ Greater Cloak of Destiny
Back: Cloak of the Footpad
Ring: Muk’s Greater Ring of Havoc (Ranged)
Ring: Ring of the Yeti
Ring: Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Waist: Belt of the Deadshot
Waist: Belt of the Leopard
Shirt: Arcanum Shirt
Legs: Kilt of Dungeonbane - Dexterity
Shins: Greaves of Absorption
Boots: Boots of the Four Winds
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Panther
Figurine: Figurine of Power: Dragon
Charm: Charm of Brooching
Charm: Charm of Glory
Charm: Charm of Champion’s Choice (Dexterity)
Charm: Charm of Awakened Synergy
Charm: Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm: Charm of the Wind
Charm: Greater Garnet Charm
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Banshee Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Kyanite Cube
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Mystic Orb
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Elfstone Shard
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone Violet Prism
Ioun Stone: Ioun Stone of Champion’s Choice (Dexterity)
Slotless: +2 Rod of Persuasion (Slotless)
Slotless: Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: Alchemist Purse
Slotless: Ash's Death Pouch
Slotless: Canteen of Quaffing
Slotless: Censer of Sacrifice
Slotless: Drinking Horn of Bliss
Slotless: Druegar’s Death Die
Slotless: Ektdar’s Tinkering Tool
Slotless: Enchanter’s Whetstone
Slotless: Flask of Sharing
Slotless: Greater Alchemist Pouch
Slotless: Greater Arcane Scroll Tube
Slotless: Horn of Blasting
Slotless: Horn of Calling
Slotless: Horn of Rally
Slotless: Horn of the Blessed Ox
Slotless: Horn of the Valkyrie
Slotless: Kvothe’s Bloodless
Slotless: Lamp of the Efreeti
Slotless: Lamp of the Marid
Slotless: Libram of Looting
Slotless: Lotus Blossom Bowls
Slotless: Masterwork Thieves’ Tools
Slotless: Medallion of Nobility
Slotless: Minotaur Horn of Alert
Slotless: Pouch of Tulz
Slotless: Quiver of Anointment
Slotless: Semi-Lich Skull
Slotless: Rod of Seven Parts
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Runestone Fitting Base
Slotless: Soul Coffer
Slotless: Soul Jar
Slotless: Sea Dragon Scroll Tube
Slotless: Tankard of Celebration
Slotless: Skull of Cavadar
Slotless: 50 GP Ebony Scroll Tube
Slotless: Arcane Scroll Tube
Slotless: Bone Scroll Case
Slotless: Carter’s Tome of Insight
Slotless: Auri’s Candle
Slotless: Harlax’s Helpful Lamp
Slotless: Badge of Nobility
Slotless: Eldest Orb of Dragonkind (Constitution)
Slotless: Pitcher of Health
Slotless: Grunnel’s Funnel
Slotless: Totem of Heroism
Slotless: Folio of Deftness
Slotless: Hitchhiking Ghost: Shog
[
8note:I usually us the foot ghost rather than waist to get the rd sneak attack.


Thanks for posting, is this a grind build? Just asking because no treasure enhancers, how much do you lose when using enhancers
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #88

Would assume that the build was for any special runs where TEs weren't required.

CoA and ISs would mostly hit hit points. Bounty can replace Guided Strike unless know rm7 requires it.

When calculating damage, as Fred notes, include bardsong. Which then gets tripled on SCs. I don't ever use ghosts or really any consumables besides potions and maybe ammo.

Very simple way to add damage is to bring in Arcane Earcuff for Icecrag's. Anyway, I suppose I should stop adding to this side conversation on rogue damage. It doesn't rate that high on my list of things that bother me.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #89

Endgame wrote: I run Cleric and always prayer (+2 hit) and bless (+1 hit, use scrolls as necessary) every combat. Our bard has the legendary lute for +4 / +4, which brings the total to +7 / +4. On the games where he plays troubadour, that bumps up another +2 / +2.

As I’ve been thinking about rogue, it’s probably one of the few places Ammo makes sense. If you had a stack of masterwork bolts (common, +1 damage) and a quiver of boosting, that would be an extra 9 damage on every sneak attack Crit. FoP brownie could double that for +18 damage.


Thanks for clarifying where the extra 3 to hit came from.

I somewhat think we should not be looking at other classes buffs when looking at the power level add of another class. It just kind of muddies the waters. That said it is also relevant.

I also don’t think we should consider things like the hitchhiking ghost or folios since they will disappear for the most part as people turn them in.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 4 months ago #90

Rogue items (tinkering, libram) would be nice

Ur (ultra rare) focus weapons
Cabal set
New cleric ur holy symbol (new deity would be fun)

I would be okay with reprinting gloves of flying fist if they are nerfed to 1/room as they are now they should never have a reprint

Functional reprint of welfors or a new legendary
Lori-gorgon Survivor.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #91

payden wrote: Rogue items (tinkering, libram) would be nice

Ur (ultra rare) focus weapons
Cabal set
New cleric ur holy symbol (new deity would be fun)

I would be okay with reprinting gloves of flying fist if they are nerfed to 1/room as they are now they should never have a reprint

Functional reprint of welfors or a new legendary


My view of Gloves of the Flying Fist is that they are broken, but it is unbalancing for long-time players to have access to them but not newer players, so reprinting them would level the playing field. Although, I'd be 100% onboard with reprinting and nerfing it.

I figure - if TPTB don't see it as broken, reprint it. And if TPTB do see it as broken, nerf and reprint it. :)
Last edit: by Mike Steele.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #92

Mike Steele wrote:

payden wrote: Rogue items (tinkering, libram) would be nice

Ur (ultra rare) focus weapons
Cabal set
New cleric ur holy symbol (new deity would be fun)

I would be okay with reprinting gloves of flying fist if they are nerfed to 1/room as they are now they should never have a reprint

Functional reprint of welfors or a new legendary


My view of Gloves of the Flying Fist is that they are broken, but it is unbalancing for long-time players to have access to them but not newer players, so reprinting them would level the playing field. Although, I'd be 100% onboard with reprinting and nerfing it.

I figure - if TPTB don't see it as broken, reprint it. And if TPTB do see it as broken, nerf and reprint it. :)


Having completely unlimited use of interchangeable missile and melee attacks definitely seems broken. In this case it's only made worse by being a Monk-only item, and Monks are already terribly overpowered.
The one saving grace of Gloves of the Flying Fists is that it doesn't negate Retribution damage the way most missile attacks do.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #93

Potion of Leaping Attack

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Get $10 off your first order from Trent Tokens with this code! http://i.refs.cc/RsPEAVgF
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #94

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Potion of Leaping Attack

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Let's leave those in the "never to be reprinted" category.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #95

Jason Brown wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

payden wrote: Rogue items (tinkering, libram) would be nice

Ur (ultra rare) focus weapons
Cabal set
New cleric ur holy symbol (new deity would be fun)

I would be okay with reprinting gloves of flying fist if they are nerfed to 1/room as they are now they should never have a reprint

Functional reprint of welfors or a new legendary


My view of Gloves of the Flying Fist is that they are broken, but it is unbalancing for long-time players to have access to them but not newer players, so reprinting them would level the playing field. Although, I'd be 100% onboard with reprinting and nerfing it.

I figure - if TPTB don't see it as broken, reprint it. And if TPTB do see it as broken, nerf and reprint it. :)


Having completely unlimited use of interchangeable missile and melee attacks definitely seems broken. In this case it's only made worse by being a Monk-only item, and Monks are already terribly overpowered.
The one saving grace of Gloves of the Flying Fists is that it doesn't negate Retribution damage the way most missile attacks do.


I agree completely. A reprint with a change to once per room or once per game might be ideal.
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Reprint requests of any rarity for 2024 1 year 3 months ago #96

+1 Bolt
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