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TOPIC: Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please!

Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #121

Matthew Hayward wrote: I would prefer that no Mythic tokens makes existing Legendary or Eldritch Relic tokens obsolete, with the exception of Treasure Enhancers, and potentially mainhand/offhand items.

By obsolete I mean there is no reason to equip the existing Legendary/Eldrtich token any longer, given the existence of the new Mythic token.

For example, the proposed Mythic +10 STR waist slot item will make Legendary Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength obsolete, since there is no reason to equip Surtr's Girdle if you can equip a mythic +10 STR belt.

To avoid this outcome, there are only a few slots to be concerned about: waist, neck, torso, finger, feet or wrist slot.

Every other slot either has no Legendary / Eldritch Token, or has/will have a way to equip a Mythic as well as every existing Legendary / Eldritch Relic tokens.

I'd focus Mythics on slots that either have less contention, or do not currently have a contested Legendary or Eldritch Relic token, e.g.:

First go after Mythics in these slots: Back, Bead, Charm, Ear, Eyes, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone, Shins.

Then go after: Head, Legs, Shirt (which will all gain the capacity to have a free slot with the Safehold program).

For instance, I believe a +7 STR gloves Mythic would be about as desirable as a +10 STR waist Mythic, and wouldn't have the side effect of obsoleting a Legendary token.


I'd actually argue the opposite. In my opinion there should be no Mythics created in slots that don't yet have Legendaries. Placing a Mythic into a slot before a Legendary exists in that slot can lead to oddities in trying to place Legendaries in later on on the balance scale. Kinda like when we got a Relic Bead when no UR beads yet existed and few Rare and lower beads existed for establishing the expected power level of the slot. Also, if the Mythic is first, it will be tougher to get players with those to later build a Legendary for that slot.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #122

Tyraël The Just wrote: EDIT: would this also remove the ability to share them with players that dont have them much like we do now COA, CAS, Harlax and nuggets ? we would be able to share all except the mythic ( or others created by the safehold program since u can only use them if you have to corresponding Safehold lvl. I would also venture to bet that we can only make one of each not matter the level.


As someone that tends to loan out those same tokens quite a bit, this has been in the back of my mind a lot when reading about the plans from Jeff. But with the Mythic CoA basically just duplicating the CoA + Nuggets (+1), I decided that I'm fine with just creating a single Mythic CoA for myself and continuing to keep my other sets of TEs separate for lending purposes. I can continue to offer those no problem.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #123

In general I like the Safehold concept and that it opens up a new avenue beyond the two legendaries. The game is more interesting when it has options.

What I would like to see:

Bring back the term apprentices. Even if the tokens remain the same, apprentices are way more interesting of a concept than underlings and fun/cool matters :)

I would recommend maybe dropping the apprentices closer to the original power level (rare consumable), but add a set bonus (for example maybe if you have x number in the group in addition to the instant action you get an additional +1/+1 for the run).

Add a “War Leader” token at Safehold IV and allow the extra slots to be loaned to someone in your group. You would have a maximum of 1 underling, 1 hireling, 1 follower (3 slots) that you could use from the Safehold system for yourself.

I am very much looking to see how this Safehold program comes together. I think it is going to be a lot of fun and the followers are all pretty adorable (for me the most interesting level).
Last edit: by OrionW.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #124

I'll say these things, which many others have said

Safeholds in TD seem to be a version of a 1st edition Stronghold or keep, where building it allows you to attract followers. I love the implementation of this idea.

The followers are meant to be the start of your army. Since that isn't practical (too many pucks and numbers) having them do something different is necessary.

Adding numbers to stats does seem one way to do this.

I will echo some others that simply adding a power level doesn't really excite me.

Adding different abilities does feel like a more fun way of going, even if they don't really come up all that often.

I don't envy TPTB their task here, amd I do appreciate the way they listen to feedback so well.

Thank you for all the work you've done thus far, and will most certainly continue to do.

Edit: so many typos.
First ever death in True Horde
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-Incognito

My token shop/trade thread: Wade's Wide World of Wonder 

My Current Paladin Build 
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #125

Fiddy wrote:
As someone that tends to loan out those same tokens quite a bit, this has been in the back of my mind a lot when reading about the plans from Jeff. But with the Mythic CoA basically just duplicating the CoA + Nuggets (+1), I decided that I'm fine with just creating a single Mythic CoA for myself and continuing to keep my other sets of TEs separate for lending purposes. I can continue to offer those no problem.


Mythic CoA replaces Beads not Nuggets right?
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #126

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: I don't envy TPTB their task here, amd I do appreciate the way they listen to feedback so well.

Thank you for all the work you've done thus far, and will most certainly continue to do.


I want to echo Wade here and say (a) I am excited about the possibility of the Safehold program, and (b) I can only begin to imagine how complicated it is to design and implement. I want it to be as good as it can be for both the players and the long-term health of the game. I appreciate all the work Jeff and others have put into this concept.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #127

ini wrote: I had a small novel ready, but lost it to dumb user error. I'll try to elaborate more tomorrow, but going to keep it quick* for now.

* +100 to everything endgame said.
* My regular group of 10-15 wants to play mythic, epic is already often too easy (depending on the module/room 7). More power creep won't solve this and almost no one in our group is excited about the current safeholds. We are more likely to play a hyper lethal challenge with our current builds.
* Secondary market shouldn't drive decisions, but ~$500 plus an unknown amount in future years makes it really hard to want to buy in anyways
* Omni stuff is amazing and actually bridges the new player gap.
* The concept of a Safehold and progression is really cool, but the current mechanics aren't landing for us. We know the team is passionate about this and we do appreciate the work you put in, so this feedback is with that in mind
* Please please please give us breadth instead of more numbers. I'd love to be able to throw a sticker on my character card that makes me an Abjurer with great defensive spells and things that grant retribution and covers up my level 2 spells. I'd love to be an exotic weapons master fighter that gets a token that slides in a different way. I'd love to truly be a wild shape druid, giving up all of my spells to be able to take different forms that can adapt to combat, or a frenzied berserker. I would put stupid amounts of trade goods into something that lets me say "**this** wizard is ini, and no others have decided to build the same set of customizations I did." Right now, my wizard looks like every other epic wizard, and the Safehold just makes the numbers go up.

These are the types of things that make me interested in buying into multiple classes and playing multiple times each weekend. I'm allergic to gacha games where "number go up" is the core feature. It's deeply unsatisfying.


* For some definitions of quick


I think many other high end players are in the same boat in terms of wanting to play a harder difficulty level even beyond Epic. It would be nice if there was a way for TD to capture a parties stats before they entered the dungeon and then customize the difficulty level based on those stats. Pigs might be flying first though...
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #128

Rob F wrote: I think many other high end players are in the same boat in terms of wanting to play a harder difficulty level even beyond Epic. It would be nice if there was a way for TD to capture a parties stats before they entered the dungeon and then customize the difficulty level based on those stats. Pigs might be flying first though...


Slightly off-topic for this thread, but the other (I think logistically easier) way to approach that idea is for TPTB to determine a set of player stats that they target for each difficulty level when designing dungeons, and publish what those target stats are... sort of like "recommended system specifications" for running a piece of software on your PC. Then prearranged groups can choose to regain some challenge by curtailing your builds to only (roughly) those stats, or to a modest amount above them. (and PUG runs on Normal can have hard maximum stat caps to help reduce bad feeling resulting from overgeared players who need strong guidance on how to play nicely with others)

Is it too late to put Safehold on ice and work on this (and character cards) instead?
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #129

I’d really like to see what the planed cost structure is on the different levels of safeholds before deciding my options fully. Also the cost level planned for the mythics.
I don’t want to buy and invest in the safeholds if the cost goes too crazy.

For example what if they are asking 100k in gold and 4 wish rings along with a bunch of other stuff for the new Avarice along with similar cost for the safehold 1. This would really turn me off.

I think we should see a general outline for the planned cost of these future tokes so we can have a conversation in context.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #130

How do the followers with + 1 Back slot and +1 Ring slot interact with the Charm of Brooching and of Glory items? Will you be able to equip 3 cloaks with Charm of Brooching and the +1 back slot follower or will Charm of Brooching limit that to 2 cloaks?
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #131

There's nothing that stops someone from getting into the Safehold program later, so the idea that need to know every recipe, especially since the recipes aren't usable this year (so they are meaningless) doesn't make any sense to me.

If want to know what SH1 costs, just wait several years until the first version comes out. Then, decide whether to bother with SH5.
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Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please! 1 year 3 months ago #132

Wayne Rhodes wrote: I think we should see a general outline for the planned cost of these future tokes so we can have a conversation in context.


+1, its hard to have a conversation about balance and value with "here's the big plan, but I can only give you the costs for 3/35 craftables" Even like cost estimates without exact mats would be helpful "was thinking this tier should cost ~$500 in mats" would be plenty. Exact mats can be talked about later
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