TOPIC: Safehold Program Details - Feedback Please!

I really really don't think safehold V should be close to a relic cost if our goal is to onboard new players into the transmute system. Each safehold is more expensive, TD needs cool programs for the non-whales of the game. Even now with the slight price drop to $365.06 for Safehold V and $117.53 for a Hireling

As it stands this goes back to feeding to the perception of maybe this game is not for me, as I am not willing to drop thousands of $$$ on tokens. And that seems to be where all the attention is focused at.

It would be nice to have a new system that at least starts at an approachable level for newer players or players not willing to spend as much money. And I really think that should be in the range of $150.00 to $200.00. With me leaning towards $150.00 since you gotta spend more to make hirelings. The big spenders will have their unique items at high levels of Safehold, so I really think we should start Safehold V much lower.

And if that comes off as a "good value" for stats, then great. That's how we get people more invested and into the other systems of the game

Impy wrote: ...
And if that comes off as a "good value" for stats, then great. That's how we get people more invested and into the other systems of the game

+1, well said

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Questions: Will players be allowed to make more than one Safehold at a given level? Will there be any way to acquire Steward tokens other than by making the associated Safehold? (Besides potentially buying them from another player?) I ask because if each Safehold only comes with 5 Steward tokens, it will not be possible to make more than 5 Hirelings/Underlings/Followers.

Yes, a player can craft as many Safeholds as they want to, even though they can only equip one.

Again, I have to agree.

I think lower level Safeholds need to be cheap. I think around Safehold 3 is where it makes sense to say "Hey...If you can't afford it or don't want to pay...sorry." Not everyone is a "super user" and that is ok. But I would still make early Safeholds "cheaper".

Kirk Bauer wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Questions: Will players be allowed to make more than one Safehold at a given level? Will there be any way to acquire Steward tokens other than by making the associated Safehold? (Besides potentially buying them from another player?) I ask because if each Safehold only comes with 5 Steward tokens, it will not be possible to make more than 5 Hirelings/Underlings/Followers.

Yes, a player can craft as many Safeholds as they want to, even though they can only equip one.

Does it say anywhere in the rules that you can only equip one Safehold? I didn't see it, but I could have missed it.

Maybe replace the Sprite with an adorable baby Hydra. I think it would be more thematic with the extra head slot.

Cassie wrote:

Impy wrote: ...
And if that comes off as a "good value" for stats, then great. That's how we get people more invested and into the other systems of the game

+1, well said

Why not make a +4 str 3* bead? It would bump out bead of stalker skill at a much lower price. (Note, I’m not actually suggesting this because it’s a terrible idea)

Safehold 5 can be approachable without breaking the whole slot system.

Mike Steele wrote:

David Zych wrote: I still have all the same concerns I had before, so I won't reiterate them, but will just offer one new (to me) thought:

Requiring players to have a Safehold II/I in order to equip Mythic tokens is a substantial departure from current practice, because it makes them much harder to loan to other players on a run (let alone buy/sell/trade on the secondary market).

I'm sure you must have thought about this, but in today's world it's pretty cool that you can build a LFM adventuring party of people with mixed means, and then help even out the gaps by loaning around some UR/relic/legendary tokens. It's also pretty cool that an individual player who might not be able to afford lots of relics and legendaries can still save up for and either make or buy just that *one* really special token they have their eye on. Those things won't be possible for Mythic tokens as written; if a player just wants to go after their one dream token and not the entire entourage of twelve drummers drumming and seven slots a-swimming, they're out of luck because the one token isn't usable without their own uber-expensive Safehold II/I.

To paint an alternative picture, suppose that requirement were removed. You would still need to build a Safehold II/I to get Mystic Transmuter tokens to *make* Mythic tokens, but once that's accomplished you would also have the option to:

1. loan Mythic tokens to any player on the same run
2. sell/trade Mythic tokens to any player on the secondary market
3. sell/trade Mythic Transmuter tokens to any player on the secondary market

rather than only being able to do those things in cases where the recipient also has (or can borrow) a Safehold II/I.

In addition to feeling more on-theme, it seems to me that these additional options would make building Safeholds even more attractive to those with means.

I actually like the requirement to have a Safehold I/II to equipment Mythic tokens. Otherwise I think we'd quickly just get back to people getting 10 of the Mythic Avarice and loaning them out on their runs (often for a cut). That's still possible for someone to do of course, but it would require them to get 10 Safehold I tokens. I also like that the requirement to have a Safehold encourages people to transmute a variety of Mythic tokens instead of just 10 Avarice tokens.

+100. If you want to equip a Mythic buck up and get yourself a Safehold. Let's not go down the same path we're on now where big guys loan their stuff out.

Two things about this that I like A LOT:

1: the hireling doesn't cost as much as the safehold. This helps make the expense of the safehold feel worhtwhile, since it feels like it "discounts" the hirelings. It also encourages transmuting multiple hirelings since you've already invested in the Safehold.

2: Once you've transmuted the "Under Construction" token, the actual Safehold requires only the Under Construction token and some gold. I am VERY pleased to see that the transmute costs are covered by the first token.

Overall the Safehold program feels thematic and consistent with how tokens work.

Personally I'm ok with the first Safehold costing roughly a Relic, as that seems do-able for me and appropriate to the power level. Having said that, I wouldn't object to making the first level a little more affordable for other players even it it means tweaking the power level.

A suggstion/question: What about including ONE of the crafter tokens (like the Hireling Steward) with the "Under Construction" token... let us get started attracting our followers while we are building the castle? OR, perhaps include a single (same for everyone) Hireling as a "bonus" at that point? Maybe create a 9th token with a small benefit like extra AC or some HP that everyone can use? Just a thought.

I'm looking forward to this! Thanks Jeff for working so hard to make something cool.

Hi Jeff,

There are multiple places in the rules where it states you can only equip one follower/hireling/underling. Should those be revised to say something like (at X Safehold level), since at Safehold I (for all 3) and II (for 2 of 3) those bump up to two of each.

Thanks!
Mike

Dergidan wrote: A suggstion/question: What about including ONE of the crafter tokens (like the Hireling Steward) with the "Under Construction" token... let us get started attracting our followers while we are building the castle? OR, perhaps include a single (same for everyone) Hireling as a "bonus" at that point? Maybe create a 9th token with a small benefit like extra AC or some HP that everyone can use? Just a thought.

ooo I really like this idea. that way you can ship it back with the under construction > finished craft and have a hireling right away

Mike Steele wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote: Questions: Will players be allowed to make more than one Safehold at a given level? Will there be any way to acquire Steward tokens other than by making the associated Safehold? (Besides potentially buying them from another player?) I ask because if each Safehold only comes with 5 Steward tokens, it will not be possible to make more than 5 Hirelings/Underlings/Followers.

Yes, a player can craft as many Safeholds as they want to, even though they can only equip one.

Does it say anywhere in the rules that you can only equip one Safehold? I didn't see it, but I could have missed it.

Safeholds are not equipment and are not equipped anywhere. Sorry for the confusion. You can make as many Safeholds as you want --- at all levels. We won't track it.