TOPIC: 2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please!

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Troll Shield is overpowered.

+3 to AC and +3 to Strength is comparable to the current Relic shield which is +5AC. Suggest lowering the Strength to +2.

+2 str is the orb of might, so for Paladin and Fighter at least they should get something better than just 3 ac tacked onto the orb of Might. +3 str is fine.

I'm looking at Shield compared to other Shields. And it's on par with a Relic. If you wanted to look at other Tokens (which I don't think you should) you could also say the Troll Shield is +3 AC, + another Volunteer UR (Onyx Cube), + a Rare Volunteer (Onyx Sphere) which...is too good.

Orb of might is offhand melee (it uses the shield slot). I think it’s a valid comparison given it’s the same slot.

For reference:
tokendb.com/token/orb-of-might/

Bracelets of Bounding: could use a boost, compare with Rare Bracelets of Frail Agility which are +3 DEX, -1 STR. Could become either +5 DEX, -2 STR, or +3 DEX with some other upside (+1 to ranged damage?)

Troll Shield should be toned down, it is +2 AC and +2 STR over Rare Bliss Bill Shield, and +3 AC and +1 STR over UltraRare Orb of Might. This could become +4 AC and +1 STR or +3 AC and +2 STR. Notably, a player who breaks up the Redoubt Set to add this shield increases strength by 1.

The troll should should probably also require it is the only shield used to prevent shenanigans like making an armor set bonus by equipping a set shield in the melee offhand and the troll shield in the ranged offhand.

Matthew Hayward wrote: l
Troll Shield should be toned down, it is +2 AC and +2 STR over Rare Bliss Bill Shield, and +3 AC and +1 STR over UltraRare Orb of Might. This could become +4 AC and +1 STR or +3 AC and +2 STR.

It’s also restricted to heavy armor classes. Fighters and Paladins should have nice things that are better than “Just what everyone else has +AC”

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: l
Troll Shield should be toned down, it is +2 AC and +2 STR over Rare Bliss Bill Shield, and +3 AC and +1 STR over UltraRare Orb of Might. This could become +4 AC and +1 STR or +3 AC and +2 STR.

It’s also restricted to heavy armor classes. Fighters and Paladins should have nice things that are better than “Just what everyone else has +AC”

The Bliss Bill Shield has the same restriction. Adding +2 AC and +2 STR from rare to ultra rare is too much.

I think it would be OK to have +3 STR on this token, just not with that much AC.

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Troll Shield is overpowered.

+3 to AC and +3 to Strength is comparable to the current Relic shield which is +5AC. Suggest lowering the Strength to +2.

+2 str is the orb of might, so for Paladin and Fighter at least they should get something better than just 3 ac tacked onto the orb of Might. +3 str is fine.

I'm looking at Shield compared to other Shields. And it's on par with a Relic. If you wanted to look at other Tokens (which I don't think you should) you could also say the Troll Shield is +3 AC, + another Volunteer UR (Onyx Cube), + a Rare Volunteer (Onyx Sphere) which...is too good.

Orb of might is offhand melee (it uses the shield slot). I think it’s a valid comparison given it’s the same slot.

For reference:
tokendb.com/token/orb-of-might/

I'm assuming the must stay equipped means no offhand cheese so this shield locks you into 1h which isn't as heavily buffed as 2h. This will make you use a 1h ranged weapon so you get detriments along with the bonus

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: l
Troll Shield should be toned down, it is +2 AC and +2 STR over Rare Bliss Bill Shield, and +3 AC and +1 STR over UltraRare Orb of Might. This could become +4 AC and +1 STR or +3 AC and +2 STR.

It’s also restricted to heavy armor classes. Fighters and Paladins should have nice things that are better than “Just what everyone else has +AC”

The Bliss Bill Shield has the same restriction. Adding +2 AC and +2 STR from rare to ultra rare is too much.

Of all the creep, this is a strange token to make a stand in given how poor fighters and Paladins compare to other classes. I could get behind 2AC and 3 Str if that is what it takes.

I also wouldn’t stress over using it with another shield given brawlers horn and brawlers mug and up often being the preferred solution for many classes anyway.

payden wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Troll Shield is overpowered.

+3 to AC and +3 to Strength is comparable to the current Relic shield which is +5AC. Suggest lowering the Strength to +2.

+2 str is the orb of might, so for Paladin and Fighter at least they should get something better than just 3 ac tacked onto the orb of Might. +3 str is fine.

I'm looking at Shield compared to other Shields. And it's on par with a Relic. If you wanted to look at other Tokens (which I don't think you should) you could also say the Troll Shield is +3 AC, + another Volunteer UR (Onyx Cube), + a Rare Volunteer (Onyx Sphere) which...is too good.

Orb of might is offhand melee (it uses the shield slot). I think it’s a valid comparison given it’s the same slot.

For reference:
tokendb.com/token/orb-of-might/

I'm assuming the must stay equipped means no offhand cheese so this shield locks you into 1h which isn't as heavily buffed as 2h. This will make you use a 1h ranged weapon so you get detriments along with the bonus

That would be good to get clarification on.

To date Mainhand/offhand things that can’t be unequipped (e.g. set bonus items) have _not_ been locked into that hand in both modes - just whatever modes it is initially equipped in during coaching.

Armor of the Ancients / Charm of the Ancients / Ring of the Ancients / Robe of the Ancients: I think the idea for a variable attribute increase sounds fun, but between the items and the Set Bonus for 2 items, would this create any complications or slowdowns in Coaching if the players don't have the App? But I'm sure there are a number of coaches who can answer that question better than me. Had a similar thought with the effect of the 2-piece set does not carry over to the 3-piece set, could that create any Coaching issues?

Belt of Beads: I'll echo the previous sentiments of slot expansion fatigue. Maybe change it to 2 Beads? Agree that it seems like it overtakes Orion's Belt.

Greaves of the Stalwart: Like that these switched to defensive. Looks like from the FAQ, they are a three year transmute. Could it be confirmed if the transmute will be part of the Arcanum Set?

Troll Shield: Like this a lot. Could there be a clarification on what "cannot unequip" means, in regards to having to use in both melee or ranged modes?

Greaves of the Stalwart seem bad for an ultra rare.

The belt of beads is better than Orion’s Belt at a UR. Maybe move it to Earcuff and do a 2 extra instead

Thanks for adding +2 to the staff

On Acherin's Biting Bow - I get it now. It's a tribute token, so it is designed to be a bit better than other options.

How does it compare to other UR bows and the benchmark Rare Bow, +1 Bliss Long Bow w/ Enchanter's Whetstone?

Well, first off there haven't been very many UR bows - +1 might longbow / shortbow, +2 Keen longbow, +2 Longbow of the Sun, and +2 flaming short bow. So, first off, it's totally time for another bow.

Not counting the mighty bows, the remaining bows are +2 and the average damage for them is just under 7. The mighty bows are complex because they are extremely hard to raise damage and hit at the same time. I'm going to leave these off unless someone has a build they would like me to check.

Archerin's Biting Bow does not have a + hit, and it's average damage is 13.25. Some observations / questions:
1) Is it not a magic weapon since it does not have a +hit?
2) App developers will have to implement damage based on Dex for just this token. Would it perhaps be better to give it a minimum required dex and then just set the damage wheel to the correct target?
3) Archerin's bow is about double the base damage of other bows

Sample Ranger that is likely appropriate for discussion, as it has 5th level, but no URs:
tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/4748e3bd-4afb-4fd5-bf75-eed6e449e292

The bows I used for the testing were:
+1 Bliss Longbow w/ Enchanter's Whetstone
+2 Keen Long Bow
Acherin's Biting Bow.

I plotted the Max damage with crit, max damage on wheel without crit, low damage on wheel without crit, and finally the average damage on wheel with a crit chance of 5% for Bliss Long Bow and Archerin's, and 10% chance to crit with the +2 Keen Longbow. It looks like this:

.

Based on these observations, I think I'd recommend:

1) Set min Dex to equip to 20, and raise the damage wheel instead of adjusting damage based on dex. (This should probably happen on the transmutes too, but that is a different discussion).

2) Lower the damage so Acherin's isn't 10 min and 20max damage higher than the other options. This bow will end up being the baseline UR bow going forward for all comparisons, so it's probably not best to over do it. I would suggest 6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13 for the damage wheel. This is 9.5 average damage across the wheel. Basically, take the +1 Bliss Longbow, and add +2 damage for not having a +hit, add .5 damage for not being a magic weapon, and +1 damage as a tribute token.

Libram of Looting
Usually reprints have identical token text.
Rogue Test: If successful, player may take token & look at hint

Ring of the Ancients
As already pointed out, this token should use "Ability Score" instead of "Attribute of choice".
+2 to Ability Score of choice

Wings of Wrath
Should be templated consistently with Charm of the Faerie, which has a similar effect.
+2 to saves, you may attack a Ranged-only monster with a Melee attack (1/game)


Notes
1. As proposed, there would be 0 head slot tokens available to PYP in 2024.
2. As proposed, there would be 0 leg slot tokens available to PYP in 2024.
3. As proposed, there would be 1 eye token slot available to PYP in 2024. It only benefits melee.
4. As proposed, there would be 1 neck slot token available to PYP in 2024. It only benefits casters.
5. As proposed, there would be 1 off-hand token available to PYP in 2024. It only benefits melee 1-handed builds (seems fine, but worth noting).

Thoughts
1. Belt of Beads & Troll Shield both seem OP. Moving bead expander to the neck slot seems like it could work.
2. There are 6x 2023 URs that boost healing. There are 2 more currently proposed for 2024. Seems like Gloves of Divine Touch could work really well if you stripped out the +2 healing bonus and bumped down the rarity to rare.

Much shorter thoughts on the other URs this pass:

+2 Savage Sword: Damage is higher than the Axe of the Dwarvish Kings. I think we could leave the Axe be the top end of the 1H UR damage range, and give the Savage Sword lower damage (since it's +2 for everyone) and an ability. My favorites so far are -2AC Monster on hit, or +2 HP gained on hit.

Armor / Charm / Ring / Robe of the ancients. Power wise seem fine, but I have concerns about coaching and app development as other have mentioned.

Bead of Shared health. Interesting idea, and seems fine with me.

Belt of Beads: I'll echo others that this feels better than Orion's, even if you dropped it to 2 Beads. Maybe make this a Neck at 2 beads? Alternatively, this might be a good one to swap out for a Quiver of Anointment reprint for that sweet rare oil.

Bracelets of Bounding: Could probably use something extra given Bracelets of Frail Agility and the competitiveness of the Wrist spot.

Greaves of the Stalwart: I think I +1 this idea in a different post, but if these are the start of the new arcanum item, maybe make it a 4 part transmute and use the Greaves of Absorption a bunch of us just bought as the first item of the 4? There is plenty of time for people to pick it up going forward, considering it just got released.

IS: Amethyst Prism - thanks for the name swap to Amethyst - much easier to spell. Love the art for the theme too.

Wings of Wrath: Melee attack against flying should probably be 1/room instead of 1/game like several other recent items that gave this ability. I also really liked the idea where it doesn't have saves but adds + 2H damage as well. It would give a very interesting choice to Barbarians and 2H fighters to either have saves or more damage.