TOPIC: 2024 Ultra Rare Token Images < Feedback Please!

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Troll Shield is overpowered.

+3 to AC and +3 to Strength is comparable to the current Relic shield which is +5AC. Suggest lowering the Strength to +2.

+2 str is the orb of might, so for Paladin and Fighter at least they should get something better than just 3 ac tacked onto the orb of Might. +3 str is fine.

+1 to endgame. I think +3 STR is fine, gives the fighter classes something special compared to the other classes. If this needs to be nerfed I think the AC should be dropped to +2 or we should add a negative like -3 to Will Saves. Both fit the theme of a troll in my opinion.

Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Endgame wrote: Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Which is why Human Fighter needs to be balanced with a new class ability and not gear. If the stats are too high for this at UR level for a class not named "fighter" then I think it is fair to say they are too high. Hopefully we will see a cool new fighter card when the classes get reviewed.

Endgame wrote: Alternatively pull out a ranged weapon.

Nope.

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Which is why Human Fighter needs to be balanced with a new class ability and not gear. If the stats are too high for this at UR level for a class not named "fighter" then I think it is fair to say they are too high. Hopefully we will see a cool new fighter card when the classes get reviewed.

I stand by the fact it’s not op for any class that can equip it:

Where the Mystic Staff says "Ranged only" does that mean it can't be used in Melee? Is the rule that "Missile" attacks can be used in Melee, but not "Ranged" attacks? Or, do you just take a step back in Melee and use a Ranged attack? Just looking to clarify.

Also, the Boots of Defiance seem too limited in usefulness for anyone to bother equipping them. To be clear, first you have to die, and then you get to attack on the following round? What if you get brought back in the following round? Do you get to attack twice (probably not). Does anyone think this is worth getting as a PYP, because there are already lots of really good boots available. This would be a pretty awesome power for a Rare token.

Are the transmuted Greaves going to be part of the Arcanum set?

I'd be a bit wary of the any announcement that stated a previous PYP would be part of a multi-year transmute unless they were explicitly called out by name; and a bit upset if they were included or allowed in an alternate recipe.

Back in the 2020 cycle, Shirt of the Oaf was announced as the start of a 3-year transmute that would provide +2 STR, DEX & CON. Spellcasters pushed back, as they would have to pick between ability scores and future set bonus or the 2018 Shirt of Focus (for the hard to come by damage or heals), and proposed that the Shirt of Focus be included in the recipe, with a reprint in 2023 for those who didn't pick it up before it would go OOP. As a result, the announcement was updated in the next round of comments to say the Arcanum shirt would be a 4-year transmute, with the final shirt being a +2 Focus shirt -- that is, a reprint (or a functional reprint) of the Shirt of Focus.

However, in the 2023 cycle, Shirt of the Shrewd (+3 Focus, -1 saves) was designed instead. A (functional) reprint of the Shirt of Focus was -- is (totally not salty) -- not part of the recipe or an alternate recipe for the Arcanum shirt, contrary to the announcement made in 2020.

As a primary spellcaster I was less impacted -- I got use out of the Shirt of Focus, unlike anyone who may have picked it up solely for the transmute -- but I'd still be upset (irrationally, perhaps) over the difference in treatment.

The multi year greaves seems very weak for what will be a $300-$400 transmute. Both the low power level and the fact that it conflicts so closely with such a recent token are likely to result in less interest.

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Which is why Human Fighter needs to be balanced with a new class ability and not gear. If the stats are too high for this at UR level for a class not named "fighter" then I think it is fair to say they are too high. Hopefully we will see a cool new fighter card when the classes get reviewed.

I stand by the fact it’s not op for any class that can equip it:

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I really thought paladins would have higher melee dmg

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Which is why Human Fighter needs to be balanced with a new class ability and not gear. If the stats are too high for this at UR level for a class not named "fighter" then I think it is fair to say they are too high. Hopefully we will see a cool new fighter card when the classes get reviewed.

I stand by the fact it’s not op for any class that can equip it:

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I really thought paladins would have higher melee dmg

Also a dwarf fighter should have a higher damage than a regular fighter on account of Enhanced Critical, but it is not visible in the chart.

OrionW wrote:

Tyraël The Just wrote:

Endgame wrote:

OrionW wrote:

Endgame wrote: Here is one huge down side to the Troll Shield.

Fighters got nice DK armor, and the next set nearly everyone else the best benefit (+2 str in torso) at lesser AC.

Fighters got a nice shield (lucky shield), and 3(ish) sets later, everyone else got the best benefit at lesser AC.

(I'll skip the extra examples, but can discuss if desired).

If we get a heavy armor shield with 3 Str, there will be a rogue / druid / whatever player asking in the next 1-3 years "Hey, can we have a melee offhand with 3 str without the AC. It's totally balanced because it doesn't have AC"

Which is why Human Fighter needs to be balanced with a new class ability and not gear. If the stats are too high for this at UR level for a class not named "fighter" then I think it is fair to say they are too high. Hopefully we will see a cool new fighter card when the classes get reviewed.

I stand by the fact it’s not op for any class that can equip it:

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I really thought paladins would have higher melee dmg

Also a dwarf fighter should have a higher damage than a regular fighter on account of Enhanced Critical, but it is not visible in the chart.

The enhanced Crit only triggers on a natural 20, so I factored it as a 5% chance of happening. It doesn’t make much impact in the “average” chart.

Edit to say that I should double check the formula for the DF Crit. It’s the only class that I have that has 2 different Crit damage amounts - 2x for a 19 and 3x for a 20.

Impy wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Troll Shield is overpowered.

+3 to AC and +3 to Strength is comparable to the current Relic shield which is +5AC. Suggest lowering the Strength to +2.

+2 str is the orb of might, so for Paladin and Fighter at least they should get something better than just 3 ac tacked onto the orb of Might. +3 str is fine.

+1 to endgame. I think +3 STR is fine, gives the fighter classes something special compared to the other classes. If this needs to be nerfed I think the AC should be dropped to +2 or we should add a negative like -3 to Will Saves. Both fit the theme of a troll in my opinion.

+3 ST and +1 Regenerate is very Troll-like