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TOPIC: 2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens

2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 4 days ago #49

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote: The game survived many years without $300 UR tokens lol


+1. We don't need power creep at the UR level just so a volunteer can sell their UR on the secondary market for $300.

You're comparing apples and oranges when you say "the UR level"; in practice volunteer UR has always been a different rarity tier from standard UR, both in power and in value.

For a long time vol tokens were the only way to get a stat boost from IS, which made them very desirable. The current Charms of Summer/Winter don't do something unique, but they are stronger than other choices in the slot, again making them very desirable.

I've always felt it would be less confusing if volunteer tokens didn't look the same as standard pack tokens, but that's not suddenly a new problem now.

Years ago there were no volunteer Tokens at all. Hopefully the deciding factor for volunteers isn't the amount of money they can expect to sell a Token for. If volunteers feel like they need more money to make it worth their while then mention it to TD and see if they can raise the stipend.

The stipends are higher this year, which is good, but printing a desirable token increases the reward for volunteering without costing True Adventures more money that they then have to make up somewhere else.

From tdvols.com, the full-time volunteer stipend for GenCon 2024 ranges from $200-$400 depending on position. For those vols who choose to sell their token, $500-$700 (or even $400-$600) is a LOT more than $200-$400, and all it costs TA is printing a different sticker.

If you are concerned about vol tokens pushing the envelope for power creep in general, then let's all lobby TPTB to reward volunteers with highly desirable standard tokens, i.e. PYPs / choose your own relics, which can add just as much value without the need for custom tokens. But if we're going to continue custom tokens, they can't be lackluster or there's no point.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 4 days ago #50

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote: The game survived many years without $300 UR tokens lol


+1. We don't need power creep at the UR level just so a volunteer can sell their UR on the secondary market for $300.

Years ago there were no volunteer Tokens at all. Hopefully the deciding factor for volunteers isn't the amount of money they can expect to sell a Token for. If volunteers feel like they need more money to make it worth their while then mention it to TD and see if they can raise the stipend.


To note, there have been volunteer tokens since 2004, almost two decades.
Lori-gorgon Survivor.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 4 days ago #51

I can easily see that Volunteers getting GP vs tokens may be a bit more stable year round. I have never volunteered yet and am really looking forward to it soon, getting to know more through VTD has really stocked the fire in me wanting to do more to help our community, but one thing sticks out in my mind.


The problem I see from the discussion here, is that we don’t want to devalue the tokens volunteers get and try to make sure if it sells for $400 VTD Jan, that it will sell for the same 12 months later. If that’s the case wouldn’t it move from being volunteering to paid work? If it’s classified as paid work with gold, UR, Relic, safehold then those who do this know what they are getting and also know that they will have a set value of what there getting. If they know the value of what they are getting then they can choose to keep working for TD, or not to. Is the goal to volunteer regardless of the benefits TD gives or is the goal to work and try to make the most dollar amount wise. Neither is bad but I think knowing what the goal is allows Jeff and TA do the best they can to meet the needs of those volunteering or working for TD. I know one of the Golems quite well and for him, it’s all about profit. He doesn’t play TD but loves the work. Everything he gets he sells and tries to make it profit over normal work for him. He told me it’s all about making as much as he can to support his other gaming enjoyments.


I pray no one misconstrues what I’m trying to say. I love our community and it has been because of the dedication of the players here, in person events and a huge part to our volunteers. Without them we would not have what we do and in my opinion, if I could, I’d give y’all way more but that’s not in my power. I too wish to volunteer soon because I really can’t wait to help like so many have over the last 20 years ( I’ve only been here 11 or 12 of those ) because I see things in this community I rarely see anywhere else and I’m proud to be apart of it. Unfortunately right now with family obligations I have 3 kids to take care of and I just don’t have the time. But for all those who do, and have, as well to all those who will, I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Last edit: by Tyraël The Just.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 4 days ago #52

Tyraël The Just wrote: I can easily see that Volunteers getting GP vs tokens may be a bit more stable year round. I have never volunteered yet and am really looking forward to it soon, getting to know more through VTD has really stocked the fire in me wanting to do more to help our community, but one thing sticks out in my mind.
I vol primarily because i love the game as a player and still do. Many of our vols are like me who play but many do not but they love the game as volunteer nonetheless


The problem I see from the discussion here, is that we don’t want to devalue the tokens volunteers get and try to make sure if it sells for $400 VTD Jan, that it will sell for the same 12 months later. If that’s the case wouldn’t it move from being volunteering to paid work? If it’s classified as paid work with gold, UR, Relic, safehold then those who do this know what they are getting and also know that they will have a set value of what there getting. If they know the value of what they are getting then they can choose to keep working for TD, or not to. Is the goal to volunteer regardless of the benefits TD gives or is the goal to work and try to make the most dollar amount wise. Neither is bad but I think knowing what the goal is allows Jeff and TA do the best they can to meet the needs of those volunteering or working for TD. I know one of the Golems quite well and for him, it’s all about profit. He doesn’t play TD but loves the work. Everything he gets he sells and tries to make it profit over normal work for him. He told me it’s all about making as much as he can to support his other gaming enjoyments.

My goal is overall to not lose money, like in case of Gen Con my goal is if i'm going to vol full time i need to make sure that is the value overall so i'm not paying to just to go vol. I adore the players and i keep coming back but yes i hope the stipend/tokens/hotel (if full time) make it worth the travel and days off. Part time for me skews my math some as hey i'm not giving up a significant portion of my con time just to vol.


Until I started volunteering more than 1 event a year/getting duplicate vol tokens I always kept mine good token bad token because they're con keepsakes to me. With multiple cons and especially VTD i use my spare vol tokens as way to trade or sell for money i put into tokens i wouldn't otherwise afford or get access to. I wouldn't mind something like td.event credit for instance. Portion of every VTD check i get effectively goes into tickets for a future VTD event as i do still play when i can. My VTD check might as well start off with stipend minus cost of a VTD ticket.

I pray no one misconstrues what I’m trying to say. I love our community and it has been because of the dedication of the players here, in person events and a huge part to our volunteers. Without them we would not have what we do and in my opinion, if I could, I’d give y’all way more but that’s not in my power. I too wish to volunteer soon because I really can’t wait to help like so many have over the last 20 years ( I’ve only been here 11 or 12 of those ) because I see things in this community I rarely see anywhere else and I’m proud to be apart of it. Unfortunately right now with family obligations I have 3 kids to take care of and I just don’t have the time. But for all those who do, and have, as well to all those who will, I truly thank you from the bottom of my heart.


If you're having a good time and laughing and smiling and i can see it and hear it on a run be it virtual or in person then i've done my job as a vol.
We're all the kind of people who enjoy the game on a "meta" level. We like talking about the game year-round. We buy tokens. We enjoy crafting. We get together during the off-season if we can. We are a very skewed demographic that way. -Raven

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truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=248097#315668 Matt's Humble Trade
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #53

David Zych wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote: The game survived many years without $300 UR tokens lol


+1. We don't need power creep at the UR level just so a volunteer can sell their UR on the secondary market for $300.

You're comparing apples and oranges when you say "the UR level"; in practice volunteer UR has always been a different rarity tier from standard UR, both in power and in value.

For a long time vol tokens were the only way to get a stat boost from IS, which made them very desirable. The current Charms of Summer/Winter don't do something unique, but they are stronger than other choices in the slot, again making them very desirable.

I've always felt it would be less confusing if volunteer tokens didn't look the same as standard pack tokens, but that's not suddenly a new problem now.

Years ago there were no volunteer Tokens at all. Hopefully the deciding factor for volunteers isn't the amount of money they can expect to sell a Token for. If volunteers feel like they need more money to make it worth their while then mention it to TD and see if they can raise the stipend.

The stipends are higher this year, which is good, but printing a desirable token increases the reward for volunteering without costing True Adventures more money that they then have to make up somewhere else.

From tdvols.com, the full-time volunteer stipend for GenCon 2024 ranges from $200-$400 depending on position. For those vols who choose to sell their token, $500-$700 (or even $400-$600) is a LOT more than $200-$400, and all it costs TA is printing a different sticker.

If you are concerned about vol tokens pushing the envelope for power creep in general, then let's all lobby TPTB to reward volunteers with highly desirable standard tokens, i.e. PYPs / choose your own relics, which can add just as much value without the need for custom tokens. But if we're going to continue custom tokens, they can't be lackluster or there's no point.


I think having some sort of PYP system for volunteers is a great idea. Better then power creeping the Tokens at the UR level.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #54

payden wrote:

Rob F wrote:

Flik wrote: The game survived many years without $300 UR tokens lol


+1. We don't need power creep at the UR level just so a volunteer can sell their UR on the secondary market for $300.

Years ago there were no volunteer Tokens at all. Hopefully the deciding factor for volunteers isn't the amount of money they can expect to sell a Token for. If volunteers feel like they need more money to make it worth their while then mention it to TD and see if they can raise the stipend.


To note, there have been volunteer tokens since 2004, almost two decades.


Yep. I stand corrected. There have been vol Tokens for years. I'm mainly focused on the UR's which up until the Stones were mainly Rare's.
"Many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view" - Obi Wan Kenobi
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #55

Getting back to the tokens themselves as opposed to thoughts on the entire volunteer compensation system:

1. If these completion tokens are con-based, it will be very hard for anyone other than extremely hardcore players to make the transmute. Given that the transmute is not appealing to extremely hardcore players, who already have skulls, I'm not sure what the appeal is here.

2. The volunteer tokens are pretty weak compared to other volunteer URs. If the intent is for these to be 2-3x value of standard URs, as others have been in the past, these miss that mark. I do agree with others that if the theory is they're supposed to be that valuable, they should be marked in a way that indicates that, whether it's a different plastic border, or just calling them relics.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #56

Yeah, I feel like people are getting hung up on Volunteer items technically being called URs, they might as well be printed with pink backs and text for as much as they relate to regular URs. They are a different class of item. Making them equal or worse than regular URs isn’t going to help the recent gaps in volunteers.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #57

Volunteers should continue to be able to pick tokens that players can get and transmute to. The current proposal may only attract those collectors that want one of everything.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #58

  • Jeff Martin
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Ho-Yi Fung wrote: All the other items bearing Aset's name increase max HP. Should the Charm of Aset grant +CON instead to keep with the theme?


I'm trying more to match the main attribute of the goddess Aset -- than match the other item powers.
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #59

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Tyraël The Just wrote: I think I know the answer, but for those who have a skull of cadaver, the lvl 6 psychic ring does nothing correct ?


We are thinking of adding a small bonus if you possess both...not sure yet what the power is. Any ideas?
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2024 Token Images - Volunteer and Participation Tokens 1 year 3 days ago #60

An additional use of the power?
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